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THE WHITE HOUSE
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Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
November 8,1995
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RBHARRS BY FIRST LADY HILLARY' , RODBAK CLINTOR
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FOR "BEYOND BEIJING: ~CTING ON COMMITHE.NTS TO THE WORLD'S WOKBH"
WORLD BANK
WASHINGTON, DC
MR. WOLFENSOHNI: Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen.' It is a gr:eat privilege and an honor for me to
introduce this morning; to you the First Lady of the united
states, Hillary Rodha~ Clinton.
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I know that I ispeak to you, Mrs. Clinton, on
behalf of everybody wh'en I say that we are absolutely
thrilled that you are here with us. All of us know that you
play a major role in ~he life of this country ~nd the life
of the world. Those qf that heard you or read your speech'
in Beij ing had a reaff:irmation of your deep, concerns for
women's rights, for wqmen's education and empowerment, and
social justice for a l l . '
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As I re~read your speech last night, I ,was
reminded that really rio one can forget your statement where
you said, "If there is one message that echoes forth from
this conference, it is that human rights are women's rights,
and women's rights ar~ human rights."
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And you went on to comment about the role of women
and their families, where you said, "If women are healthy
and educated, their f+milies will flourish. If women have a
chance to work and earn as full and equal partners in
society, their famili~s will flourish. And when families
flourish, communities ' and nations will flourish."
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I know that you understand the role of the World
Bank, and I know that/you know that we share your concerns.
We cherish your lead~rship.We cherish your interest. And
may I say personally ~ cherish very much the many references
you now make to the W9rld Bank as you speak in terms of
giving us support in places where'we need it.
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�· We share_. with y~u your interest in education for
girls, in basic health ¢are, 'and in access to credit and
services. And we know, : as you do, that loans as small as
$100 to a woman can help double her family's income over a
five-year period.
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In fact, in just this last week, Jan piercy helped
us organize here at the; Bank the first meeting of our Policy
Advisory Group on Micro~nterprise Lending, including
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Mohammad Yunus, whomyo~ know well, Nancy Barry of the
Women's World Banking, Mario Atara of Action
International, and othe~ leaders in the field. And we
committed ourselves yet! again to move forward in this area
of financing which is ~f such great importance to the
development of women's iroles in the world.
I would like tq say to you that in my Annual
Meeting speech, by acc~dent I wrote that. we judge ~ur
effectiveness and not by ~ bureaucratic process but the
smile on a child's fac~.. Having read your speech and having
been to Beijing, I should amend it and say that you judge
oursucces$ by the smiles on a mother's and a child's face.
Faces, I guess it is.; And so I say to you today that we
cherish the fact that you're here. You have within this
group people who care qreatly about the issues about which
you care,and.I w~nt y?U to know that we all admire and
respect and are qratefulfor the efforts that you give to
the causes that· we share.
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May I introduc~ the Fi~st Lady of the United
states, Mrs. Hillary R~dham Clinton.
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MRS. .CLINTON:· ; Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you all. Thank you very much, Jim, for that kind
introduction and for inviting me to be part of this
significant series of keetings that you will be having about
follow-up to the Beiji'ng Conference. .
I appreciate ~he conference organizers for putting
this together because ;Ithink that the conference itself
opened many doors and Iminds, but now it falls to all of us
in our various capaci~ies to determine how we will keep
those doors open, to walk through them, and to take the
opportunity that thos~ open minds give us to work together·
to make change on behalf of the issues that you have worked
on so hard and that m~ny of us share with you.
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As I look at this audience, I am reminded,.as I
always am when I think about the World Bank, of how
representative this ibstitution is of people allover the
war ld and their aspir~tions. And I want to congratulate all
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of you and the Bank on i~(itJ~?Jltlnuing commitment to the
difficult but crucial ta~k of improving lives of people
everywhere and to congra~ulate you on your emphasis on women
and children.
I know by your v~ry presence here you need little
persuading that investin~ in women should be at the core of
any strategy to alleviate poverty, energize economies, and
strengthen our global fa~ily. I know that you here at this'
Bank seek to maximize th~ return on your loans and
investments, and support!ing projects that raise the social,
economic, political, and' legal. status of women in their
families and communities: is one of the souildest investments
cou.ntries and the Wor ld :Bank' can make.
As Jim said, I b;elieve strongly and I think we are
now a1'l recognizing that;; if women are healthy and educated,
their families do better. If they are free from violence,
their families do bette:r!. If they have the opportunity to
earn and work as full a~d equal partners ih society, their
families do better. And when those families do better, then
the communities and nat~ons of which they are a part do
better as well.
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But these simple calculations are ones that many
in our world, even after all the work of the World Bank in
recent.years, even aftet;' t;he U.N. conferences in Copenhagen
and Beijing, still fail ;to understand. There are many who
seem to think that so-called women's issues--education and
he~lth care, for exampl$--aresoft issues, not worthy of
addressing in any strat~gic manner, or in conferences such
as these. But that is ~rong, and you are helping to prove
that it is'wrong every day •
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Issues that af ~ct the well-be1ng of women an
families across the world are just as hard and just as
central to our future syccess and prosperity. as figuring out
budgets, determining de~ense strategies, and negotiating
trade agreements.
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The economic security of every nation hinges in
part on the productivity and well-being of its women. This
is particularly true in'developing nations where so much of
your work takes place. : Women represent more than half the
world's population. Th~y tend to be the primary nurturers
and teachers of the world's children and caretakers of our
elderly. Women in deve~9ping countries grow at least half
the world's food. In sport, they are the unr~cognized
backbone of the world eponomy.
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, But women are 7ppercent of the world's poor, and
two-thirds of these are. not taught to read'and write. To
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thi,s day, .they continu$ to die from diseases that should
have been' preve'nted' or I treated. They too often are. forced
to watch their childre~ succumb to malnutrition caused by
poverty. . While .they often grow and. prepare the fdod their
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families eat, women inlsome countries continue to be fed
least and fed last. W9men are often being denied the right
to go to school by the~r own fathers and brothers •. They are
being barred from the ~ank lending offic~ and banned from
the ballot box.'
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Those who enjoy the opportunities of education,
health care,. jobs, er:edit, and legal and political rights
are. flourishing in theinew world economy. Those without
such opportunities--and most often they are women and .
children--are lagglng farther and farther behlnd •.
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. So long as tho~e obstacles exist', so long as women
are prevented anyWhere: from realizing their God-given
potential, the vicious: cycle of·poverty.that traps not only
women, but also their children, husbands, communities, and
nations will continue. I And this trend threatens the very .
institutions we are seeking to uphold: strong families,'
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strong economies, and Istrong democracies.
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As Jim WOlfensphn told the delegates in Beijing,
not to empower women isa tragically missed opportunity, not
only to create a more Just but also a more prosperous
society.
At the conference in Beijing, women and men from
all walks of lile and ~ll regions made clear that'democracy
and prosperity cannot :be attained or sustained in countries
that do not value women as full and equal partners .in
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SOCle t y.
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It was a histdric conference. More than 180
nations agreed to implement a platform that enumerated
specific ways to expaqd the rights and opportunities of
women around the world. So the conference was a success,
despite many of the n~ysayers before it began. But it was
only a step.
Now it is up to every nation, every non
governmental organiza~ion, every concerned individual to
make sure that the spirit, energy, and commitments of
Beijing are carried f6rward. And the World Bank is a
crucial partner, a vi~al player in our world's efforts to
ensure that the goals:and remedies agreed to in Beijing
become reality.
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The Bank is aiready supporting several projects
that have made a significant difference in the .lives of many
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poo~ women. And your p~rticipation in international
microfiriance programs, 'including'the new consultative group
to assist the poorest,
already yielding returns.
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During visits to South Asia and South America this
year, I saw firsthand t~e transforming effect small loans to
women can have on famil~es. In many cases, those loans do
double family incomes. iThey do lift'families out of
poverty,. And, maybe mo~e importantly, they give confidence
to women who before had1none, confidence to believe their
lives are worthy, theirichildren's lives are of value, and
confidence in the futur~ which is the first step towards .
sustaining the kind" of prosperity and democracy that future
hope relies upon.
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Anyone
India has seen
women. Anyone
Bangladesh has
who has visited Ela Bhatt and SEWAin
that look of confidence on the faces of those
who has risited the Grameen Bank in
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seen that look of confidence.
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. I know that when I went to the village where I
visited the participant~ in the GrameenBank, I was told
before going that it wa~ a village of Hindu untouchables,
that no one goes to that village.- And because I was going
to that village~ a nearpy village of Muslims wanted me to
come there as well.Bu~, unfortunately, my schedule did not
permit. So for the fir~t time, Muslini women came to the .
Hindu village. They were sitting together in rows on
benches. And as I walk;ed toward them, seeing them in their
.multicolored saris, I c,ould not tell who was a Hindu except
for the red dot on the :forehead. Then as they talked, I
could not tell any diff;erence in their aspirations or their
hopes for themselves and their families. And as I talked
with them individually1about what they had spent their'loans
for, I heard the same ~tories from Hindus and Muslims alike:
buy ing a milk cow, buY,ing a second milk cow, buying a
rickshaw for a husband ito make a living.
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All that I hear,dreinforced my belief that
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providing this kind of [opportunity was not only a bridge to
economic prosperity, but at least a hoped-for bridge across
many other divisions tHat keep up apart from one another.
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Expanding a woman's access to' credit is essential
to elevating her statu~ in her own home as well as in her
society. Microlending :institutions have helped women with
that status to become iecognized breadwinners. They are
responsible for the f h7st time to help improve the l,iving
conditions of their families.
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At a roundtabl~ discussion in Santiago, Chile, I
met a seamstress who cqmpared her new situation, having
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�received a microcredit lban, to that of a caged bird set
'free. withotifa' sewin'g' inachine, .this woman could barely
make a living and compet~ with other factories and
seamstresses. She told ~e, "I felt like I had all this
potential and all this energy, but like I was a bird in a
cage." Then she appliedl for and received a small loan.
with it, she·bought a mo~ern sewing machine. III kissed that
sewing machine over and pver again," she told me •
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When my husbandiwas Governor of Arkansas, he
called upon Mohammad Yunus in 1985 for advice, in creating
Arkansas' own group-bas~d borrowing program called "the
good-faith fund."
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In keeping withl one of the commitments the United
States made at the Beijling Conference, the Treasury
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Department is establishing an annual Presidential award for
microenterprise excellence. The Department will also
coordinate a Federal mi!croenterprise initiative that will
help,publicize microcr~dit and microenterprise, set
benchmarks for program~ to use in assessing their own
efforts and better sta~dardize existing efforts.
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Women cannot b~come full participants in the
social and political lives of their countries without
proficiency in reading:and writing. And what we have tried
to do here at the Bankiand what you have.been accomplishing
around the country is taking steps to ameliorate the
situation many women f~nd themselves in. Jim Wolfensohn and
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�h'-s predecessor, Lew pr~ston, have long noted that
investniEmts 'in educatio~' are the single most important
contributions the Bank can make to strengthening ,women's
role in development. ' A~d -I welcome the Board and the Bank's
creation of the Lewis Pt.eston Fund for the Education of
Girls.
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Educated women tend ,to marry later and plan the,
size of their families. I With fewer children, they have more
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time and resources to care for them. They stress the
importance of school to /their children and recognize the
-need for basic health c~re. 'Most -importantly, education
helps women gain self-ccinfidence and e~couragesthem to
reject traditional noticins of second-class citizenship that
condemn them and their ~hildren to lives of poverty.
The World Bank ~s an "important guarantor in the
effort to make sure the Iworld meets the goal set by the U.N.,
summit on Children to i~crease primary school completion
rates for, both girls and boys to 80 percent. I encourage
you to maintain your cOt\u'nitment to this goal, as well as the
new goal of raising secondary school completion to 60
, percent, proposed by Ji* Wolfensohn in Beijing. ' ,
Also fundamentai is 'health care. Girls cannot
study and women cannot ~ork well without basic nutrition and
pro~ection from diseasel Too many women in developing
countries' still die of ~nnecessary complications from
childbirth, and sick girls are often denied potentially
life-saving treatment simply because of their sex. These
issues 'should be at the; forefront of any strategy, to, assist
women.
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I want also to 90ngratulate the Bank on ~ts latest
efforts to ensure equality between the sexes and its lending
programs and its own employment practices. As a major
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source for many developing nations of both funding and
example, you are in a uhique position to influence their
anti-poverty programs. ,I am heartened to know that through
your new gender analysi~ and policy group, gender issues
will be addressed. in al~ country assistance strategies and
lending programs sponsored by the Bank. I am also pleased
that the World Bank recpgnizes the unique perspectives women
. bring to these issues ard has actively sought to increase
the representation of wpmen in leadership positions within
the Bank.
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Women sometimesi know that others around the world
are engaged in the sam~ struggle they are. It has been one
of the most heart-warmi'ng experiences that I have had to
bring women together an1d to see women in different contexts
learning from each othe:r.
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When I met with lma11 borrowers at the FINCA
Bank lriManaqua,' Nicaragua, I met womenwho··hadcarved out
livelihoods as bakers, s~amstresses, makes of mosquito
netting, automobile part~ saleswomen, and they asked me
about women in India who: were doing the same thing. .
Apparently they had seenisome television coverage of my trip
to South Asia, and they wanted to know what women half a
world away were like andlwhat they were doing with the loans
they received. .
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At that moment Ii felt I had witnessed a profound
connection among women a~o~nd our world, one that transcends
borders and reaches fromi the barrios of Managua to the
villages of India and be¥ond.
So now two month~ after Beij ing, . we· still have
much'to do in making the! message of that .conference live in
the minds and hearts of people allover the world, and we
have even more work to· d:o in implementing the agenda for
action that was adopted 0, But I believe that we have turned
an important corner, tha;t for the first time institutions as
significant as the World Bank, governments like that of my
own country, and people /throughout the world in NGOs and on
their own are finally sayin'g and believing that women should
be valued and invested ~no And if we carry forward on that,
promise, then I am confjdent we will see results in the .
short .and medium term tHat will in many ways reflect that
this new commitment is ~e11 founded. And your leadership,
both in articulating itjand implementing it, will ,be crucial
to any ~ope for progres~ that we have.
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Thank you for what you are doing, but more than
that, thank you for what you will be doing now and in the
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MR. WOLFENSOHN: i The First Lady has agreed to
answer questions and ha$ asked me if I can .call on a few of .
you that I hope will indicate that you want to ask
questions.
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MRS. CLINTON:
But if you don't, that's all right,
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MR. WOLFENSOHN:' Yes, sir?
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QU~STION: Mrs.: Clinton, I heard' you in Beijing,
and I also heard here Yfur emphasis on improving access to
women and girls in educ,ation. It is quite well placed.
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The dilemma whi'ch we face in the international
organizations is that p;overty reduction involves keeping the
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who are already pelow the poverty line come up with
education andopportuniti,s -fo~- -employment. So given our
. collective role, should w~ invest in girls' education for
the primary schooling, wh}ch wil~ take, you know, 'many
generations and many deca?es, or should we ,really allocate
our resources for literacy of the adult women? And I would
very much like your opinl?n because you have traveled both
in South. Asia'and other parts of the world, where poverty
prevails, as to the interpational organizations such as the
World Bank, where should pur emphasis be and where our
priority should be.
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MRS. CLINTON: we,IIl , I think that's a very
important question, and ~ do not pretend to be an expert
about any region of the:~orld, nor of that particular
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subject. But I do belie~e that the short answer is you have
to do both, and how you allocate those resources is
obviously the challenge.! '.
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But I think ther~ are some creative ,ways of
leveraging resources andlmaximizing them that I have seen in
action in various parts of the world. Let me just mention a
few~'
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I think providin~ incentives for families to keep
girls in school through direct food aid, even. through direct
monetary assistance, is ~ relatively cheaper way of engaging
those families in suppor~inggirlsl education than some of
the other ways we have tried in. the past •. So I.would urge
that the World Bank loo~ at some of the food for education
programs. . Iknow,ther~ iis ~n~ that I personally visited in
Bangladesh that the PrlmeMlnlster the're has supported where
I saw families lined up /oncea week to get commodities which
they were only able to receive because they kept their girls
in S C h O O l . ;
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There was a secdndary program also in Bangladesh
where the direct payment of compensation to families in
relatively, very small ~mounts was enough of an incentive to
keep their daughters inisecondary school.
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I also, think, though~ that there has to be .some
emphasis on what I woul~ call family literacy, and there I
think one of the benefits of the possible spread of global
technology may be to use some of that technology for
enhancing literacy amon~ adult-aged women. And yet one of
the best ways for engag1ing adult-aged women in literacy is
through their child's e,ducation. I have seen that being
very successful, eithe~at, the workplace but more
successfully within thej family unit.
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Israel has a
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called HIPPY, the Home In;struction Program for Pr~school
Youngsters, <which it bega;n to implement.follo_wing ~~ye.s of. <
refugees primarily from ~orth Africa and Ethiopia in the
late 1960s and 1970s who ~ere having a difficult time
socializing their childr~n to be successful in the Israeli
school system. By working with the mothers to make even
illiterate mothers feel lJike they were-their child's first
teacher, there was quite la success in both preparing the
child and in convincing tihemother to increase her own,
literacy level. <
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So I think direct grants to families to keep them
in school with a commitm~nt to girls' education, family
literac¥programs, and ttien I think if you are going to
follow through on your s~condary program, 6,0 percent
completion rate, there W~ll ,have to be more schools built.
And anything you can do to encourage nations to do that,
because one of the greatiimpediments, even if they send
their daughters to primary school, is that <many families
have no access to a secondary school that is within easy
commuting distance, and'they will not send their daughters
off ~o a strange place, cis I probably wouldn't either, for a
secondary school under t~ose circumstances.'
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So those three elements Just off the top of my
head would be things I would look at, at trying to
encourage.
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MR. WOLFENSOHN: !Yes, ma'am?
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QUESTION: I am Zeeshan fatima, and I have bee
with the Bank for 14 yea~s, all of it in Pakistan except two
in the U.S. I happened to write to you just before your
visit to Pakistan, and Iiam glad to say I got an
acknowledgment from you.; <
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I had a que~tion!which, ip the Bank language, is
not necessarily the view~ of my government. It is my
personal view. My personal view is that there is a very
fine line between religi9us beliefs and human rights. ,And
most often than not, rel~gion is viewed as an excuse to
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Firstly, where d~ you see this line meeting and
leaders and preachers being actually influenced for the
better by forums like th~ Beijing Conference?
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Thank you.
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MRS. ,CLINTON:
my views are not necessarily
government er-ther, so I understand' that.
of,~y
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. ·MRS. CLINTON: I. tihink __you have asked, you know ,
an incredibly.complexand IdifficUlt. as well as sensTt.ive
question, and I think tha~ it is a question all of us are
searching for: What is tne proper balance between
sensitivity and respect f~r religious beliefs and concern
about religious beliefs b~ing used to deny human ~ights and,
even beyond that, justify/violence, as we have just seen
over this past weekend wiih the assassination of Prime
Minister Rabin? And I think that it is going to be one of
th~ great issues we all have to grapple with, and it is one
of· the reasons why we have to be willing to stand. up against
. expressions of religion that are filled with hate and·
intolerance toward other people, because very often those
mask political and other agendas. They are not strictly
religious in any definiti9n~
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And I believe that showing respect· for every
religion and working to c~eate an atmosphere of tolerance
for every religion is an [mportant obligation that we in
leadership positions here/ at the Bank or anywhere have. But
being willing to speak ou~ against abuses of human rights
and misuses of religion f1orpolitical and other gains I
think is. also an obligatipn.·
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You know, words 9f hate can incite deeds of
violence. There is a ver,y direct line there •. And when one
makes political arguments based on one's religious. beliefs,
there's no discussion possible. How does one have a· .
discussion, whether it is in our country or any country,
with people who say, youlknow, here's what .God told me to
do?
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Well, we have t~!do more to work with people of
good faith across all religious lin~s to build an atmosphere
of religious respect anditolerance, but intolerance for
violence, for abuse of human rights that is rationalized by
religion. And I would h9pe that all of us are going to be
more willing to speak ou~ against that wherever we see it.
And it will take some--it will take some risk to do so, .
because the forces of negative energy that are often fueled
by extremist religious views right now are very strong
because they command a lbt of media attention, they ~re
. dramatic, they are contr9versial, they are often given
attention far beyond what their nUmbers warrant, a.nd they
have a chilling effect oh people of good faith and reason
who are afraid then to speak out against such intolerance.
And I think all of us hare an obligation to do more of that.
So I think there~ is a. way. to be respectful and at
the same time speak out !against the extremists.
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QUESTION: Hello.! As you have described, in your
travels 'you often meet with theleaderS.of non-gov~rnmental
organizations. and secular! women's organizations. I'am'
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wondering what your sense; is of the capacity of those
organizations to tackle the problems the breadth of which
you have described, and specifically, if you can give some'
advice to the World Bank on how we can enhance that capacity
and perhaps work more eff¢ctively with these organizations.
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MRS. CLINTON: We~l, I believe that there are an
enormous number of effect~ive, well-functioning organizations
that are devoted to womenJ's issues around the world, and
there are many who are no~ as effective. I think that .is
always the, case.
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But I believe theoc-e ought to be more attention
paid as to how we. can:r:ep!licate through. technical a~sistance
and support the effect1veNGOs and prov1demore ass1stance
to those who share the sa:me aims for are not as effective in,
implementing them.
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For example, I tHink it would be hard to argue
that--you know, SEWA in ~ndia has been a great success.
There are many groups that could learn quite a bit, and with
technical assistance 'fron{ the World Bank could be more
successful.
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Part of our dile~a in all of these non
governmental efforts is ~hat so o.ften they arise from and
depend on a charismatic leader who is the person around whom
the organization is buil~ and who really holds it .
accountable. And there ~s no succession, and there is very
little in the way of rea~onedreplication efforts. And I
have for a long time believed that organizations such as the
. World Bank and others sh9uld spend some serious time trying
to figure out how you can replicate the successes of these
organizations i,n the absJmce of a charismatic leader;
certai~
There are
institutional imperatives that
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we ought to be able to support. One of the reasons why I
think Grameen Bank has b~en successful is that Mohammad
Yunus from the very begihning understood it had to be a
bank, not just a project 1 or a program or an NGO that was on
the margins of the financial delivery system. And I think
that made a big differente in the success of .that'
'organization because frob. the very beginning it was seen as
an institution, and an ihstitution that looked like other
banks.'
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Well, I ,believe ~hat there are ways that we can
learn better how to repl:icate the successes of the. effective
womenNGOs. I also think that in'many situations a lot. of
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�those NGOs could be more effective if more attention were
paid to :,their relationships with other, organizations so that
they could leverage their I impact. Many NGOs lead very
isolated lives. They don~t interact with either
governmental sources of assistance or other NGOs. Anything
that we could do to bringipeople together in more of a
cooperative sense--I think often of what northern Italy
could teach us in the way Ithat it brought together small
entrepreneurs through org~nizations that provided
bookkeeping assistance tolmany small businesses, for
example, ,so that eacn business wouldn't have to go out and
worry about that particuI~r,' aspect of its functioning.
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In that work, youican se~ how the dollars that are
,available to support these NGOs can be stretched so much
further ,if they could be 6rought into more of a cooperative
mentality.
!
,So those are two things, ,the replication and the
cooperation, that I think Iwould assist already effective "
NGOs and bring' o'thers up ~o a level of higher functioning.
:.
QUESTION: My nam~ is Sweta Gandhi. I have
been with the Bank seven years.' I am from India. And next
.year I am taking leave of Ithe Bank to work. on (inaudible)
development with, a valuesjfocus for children back in India
with my little organizati0n that I started as a charit,y
organization. It has gro~n a little bit •. And I wanted to
know, because education iil and of itself, while it leads to
a sense of dignity, what ~appens often in many developing ,
countries is that people ~on't get jobs after they are
. educated, and women find increasingly they are frustrated.
And I have found that in ~y work in Morocco. And I was
.
wondering whether you feel that we should be also
considering the content, ~nd especially in the context of
religious problems thatw+ face, the focus on tolerance and
other valueS that allowu~ to look at people as people and
not as against the contex~ of their religion or their race
or whatever.,
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MRS. CLINTON: Well, I hear two different
questions, both of which I think are very important~ The
one is education for whati in a global economy and how
effective education will.be in providing real employment for
people. I think that is pne of the huge issues that the- .
entire world has to face,/ because the flip side of this,
globalization is, I think, an ultimate reduction .in .
employment opportunities for many people already in the
labor force, and for many! others whose educational levels,
despite the promises madel. to them, will not support adequate
employment in the so-call~d global economy or information
age. '. That is a problem fpr the private sector as well as
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f.o~
the not-for-profit and public sectors, and I believe
that we are 'going to have/to give 'some very serious thought
to that, because it is no~ only a worthwhile altruistic
matter to consider, but if economies don't flourish because
education pays off in rising incomes but instead results in
either stagnant or falling incomes, or even the inability to
find work, that will increase political instability. It
will drive people into ali kinds of identification with
negative forces, whether ~thnic, religious, or whatever.
And it will ultimately unc;termine markets, which is something'
that business shpuld be c9ncerned about.
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So the second part of your question is very timely
.as well, because at the s~~e time that we are trying to
increase levels of education, figure out how in the global
economy there will be enoUgh jobs for all these people we
are trying to get eduqate~, we also have to put a stress on
the values of respect anditolerance and the importance of .
diversity, both as a way of opening up employment and·
educational opportunities I and as a way of perhaps holding
back some of the tide of discontent and disappointment that
wili be inevitable as we fuake this economic transition.
I
So I think anythihg one can do, and it goes back
to the quest-ion about thel role of religion and the abuse of
human rights, anything one can do to create a more open
society, to create more lhdders of opportunity, to rid
societies of the artificihl divisions, whether it be caste
or religion or race or clhss or whatever, the more likely it
. s you will be able to buy some time to try to success'fully
i
navigate this transition :into this new economy. S'o I think
that both of those questions are very important ones for us
to think a b o u t . :
.
One of the hardes~ questions I have been asked in
the whole time that I have traveled, I was asked on a Moscow
radio station--I was on a l call-in in Moscow, which was·
interesting, and a woman ~alled in and asked m~ what she was
expected to do. She was highly educated, as were all of her
friends, and, they were alil having, trouble finding work and
keeping work that gave th,ein any decent income or sense of
security. And she said, :you know, you go around talking,
'all these leaders go around talking about the need to
educate people in the de~eloping world; wea:e highly
educated, and we don't know what our future, 1S.
.
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So this is not just a problem for what we consider
the so-called developing Morld. This is a problem for many,
many other countries that are confronting a lot of these
social and economic changes at the same time.
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QUESTION:
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was .,:very happy to'hear your emphasis
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�on.m~crofinance, both herej and in Beijing when I was
pr1v1leged to he'ar you spe~k "with Profes,sor Yunus. ~Ild Ela'
Bhatt. But I do have a worry that, is associated with
even what I I ve heard today/. The focus is often--the word
credit is used a lot, and
think that there's a general
tendency to think that if e can just get a lot of credit
out there, a lot 'of things will happen.
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1 think as you saia yourself it is really the
systems, the financial sysitems that get built by. people like
Ela and Professor Yunus that really leave something in their
place when the donors hav~ qoneaway and the governments get
bored, the systems that ac'tually can keep going with the
women's own savings once that effort is put in. And 1 just
would like to have your r~sponse on, what 1 think is a
problem for many of us in II~he development world, is that we
are under an institutional imperative, quite often, to lend,
to make a big loan, have
credit lin~, get that money out
there. And there is less lof an emphasis than perhaps there
should be, on the institution building, what 1 call the
social intermediation par~, rather than the financial
intermediation.
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Basically, 'I thinJ this touches on a contradiction
that the Bank. faces betweJn being abank--our product is
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loans, and we've got to get money out there--and being a
development institution where our real product is systems
and institutions and peopie with better capacity. And 1 as
a person in the Bank trying to work in the field of
microfinance, 1 think a 16t of our task managers face thi,s
over and over again, that!the big ,bosses are looking for a
large loan, and the peopl~ out there really need institution
building.
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Thank you.
MRS~ CLINTON:
We~l, 1 think you're right,: and 1
think it's an inevitable tension, but one that 1 would hope
is going to be resolved mbre in favor of institution
building than it has beenl in the past, in part because 1
think now ,there is more of an awareness of the importance of
institution building.
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There was an idea:-':"and not just in the World Bank,
but in many large institu~ions, both doing development and
governmental programs witpin countries in the past--that
money itself would seed the ground for institution building
and the creation of inter~mediary institutions that would
lead to stable structures' that, could then carrYon on their
own. And we know that th1at is much more difficult to do
than we had originally tHought and that money alone is not
the answer. Money, howe~er, is a great incentive, and given
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the fact that your bu'siness is' making loans, . using those'
'loans tofurthe·r .instituti~:m building I thin~_t~n9t an
incompatible mutual objective. ,
.
HOW' you do that,' Ijdon't pretend to ,know, but I do
know that when one looks at many of the successful
institutions that have beep ,built over the past 10 or 15
years, two of which you haye named, it was both. It was
both lending the money, bu~ also creating an infrastructure
SQ. that that money had a cpntext.
It wasn,'t just out there.
And part of the reason Grameen worked and Sewa works ,and
other things like it have ~orked is because they didn't make
it an either/or issue.' .
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,It is amazing to me that in many commercial banks,
loans that are bad loans g~twritten off and more bad loans
get made. It's like inevi1table. That's the idea of
lending, you know, . you make some good loans, you make 'some
bad loans, without a recoghition that if cominercial banks
would spend just a small f:raction of their resources
supporting microenterpris~ and mic~ocredit, ev~ri as
difficult as the start-up Jcosts are, even as difficult as it
is to think on that kind of ~ level, that they would be ,
adding to the financial st!ability of the ent;ire region. And
that is to the good for tHe big loans they make.
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, It is all interconnected, and' I think
understanding that intercdnnection will begin to open
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people's mlnds, perhaps, to some new ways of leveraglng
assets and resources. 5011 think that many ,of the loans
should be tied to infrast~ucture and to devel0p.ment in ways
that haven't been done quite in the 'same way in the past, .
and I think there is,' a lot of creativity in this Bank and
there are a lot of people Iaround the world who are more open
to it than were in the past.
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QUESTION: You. mentioned your trip to Moscow.
There has been a dramatiC/deCline in women's participation
in that part of the world.' ,
The new democracies have become
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very male democracles. W~at role do you se~ for .
Amerlcan '
women to help women in this part of the world make their
voices heard in shaping the transition , of their ' societies
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and their economies, and what role for international
organizations suc~ as thel World Bank? '.
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MRS. CLINTON: I think you are right, and,
certainly friends of mine/Who are working in the NIS
.
countries and elsewhere have remarked to me about that, and
many of the women I have !net with, particularly in MoscoW,
but also' in Belarus and ih other countries~ ,as, well, have
remarked on it to me.
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I think that you have to do what, we are doing,
encouraging women NGO's, heiIPing,--to_cre~te .such, en.t,tt:_i~~Jn
those countries, providing some good role models and
technical assistance to gi~epeople the confidence about
making these decisions on their own. There is a great need
for building confidence acr;oss the board in a lot· of those
countries about; people's capacity to make these independent
decision~, whether it is on behalf of an NGOor in any other
arena of the political or ~conomic life.
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So I don't think toe work is that different than
it was anywhere else in th~ world, but i: thinkthatit'has'
to be approached with some Ireal 'sensitivity, because we are
dealing with women who have highe+ levels of education in
general, women who often hdld positions, both in the,
'
government or in other cap~c~ties, whQ no longer hold them.
, So trying to be sensitive Ito the conditions that they' are
living through, while trying to support them, I think is
very important.
I ""
I have' worked to c~eate p~rtnerships'between
maternal hospitals and children's hospitals in some of these
countries and ones h~re at Ihome , because most of the doctors
in those hospitals are wom~n,and they have really been left
in a very precarious posit~on.' The whole health care,
. '
infrastructure has collapsed around them and they don't get
a lot of attention from th~ government officials who are
preoccupied with .
the big m~cro issues. 'So I,am trying 'to
.,
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create relat10nsh1ps so that these women have support from
peers and professionals. I
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We have one going on between the nursing school at
the University of Pennsylvania and nurses in 'Kiev. And the
idea that they are talking/to one another as peers, not
somebody coming in from the outside to tell these women how
they are supposed to do it/better, but trying to create a
situation of mutual respect. So that kind of effort I think
should be pursued and supptrted as, much as possible.
QUESTION: Mrs.'Clinton, the success,of Beijing,
of course, is going to dep~nd to a large degree on the
effectiveness of transferr~ng from the rhetoric in Beijing
. to programs of • action, particulariy by the government. What
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are the mechan1sms that the U.S. Government has . to pre~sure
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or encourage these governm~nts to undertake those programs
of action? You specifically talk about not the aid~related
activities, 'but other political or official channels.
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MRS. CLINTON: I c~n tell you what We are
to do here in our own country. The President has
inter-agency council on'woken that is tasked with
up on Beijing. It is chaife4 by the Secretary of
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trying
created an
following
Health and
�~
Human Services,
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~
Do~a Shala~a.
- .•- - •.•
. .~-~ _. ~. ',. .
~~"~'-'~~"--~.-- .~.- ~f.
••
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..
It includes both ca,binet officers anq other high-'
ranking officials in our own government in this inter-agency
council, and each ha.s been lassigned a different aspect of
the Beijing platform, so th1at the Department of Labor works
on many of the issues relat1ed to pay equity and other
.
working conditions for wom~n, the Health and Human.Services
Department is working on fO;IIOW-'UP to health 'issues that
were raised, the State Department is t.asked with keeping
track of human rights issu~s. So th~re is a~ effort that we
are making to try to house lour follow-up in one place, so
that it is not disbursed tWrough the government so that it
can basically get lost and so that nobody is responsible for
it.
' .
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.
I hope that that will be effective in bringing a
lot of these issues to the Iforefront~ in our own country. and
making linkages. For examp,le, we have this new law that was
passed last year, theViol~nce Against Women Act, and we
have an' office now set up ~n our Justice Department.
ConfE!r~nce
If you track the U.jN •. Women's
as one of
the great changes that occurred was between Nairobi, wher~
violence against women; pa~ticularly in the domestic sphere,
was mentioned for the first time as a problem, and the
emphasis that was put on it ~at Beijing. So what we are.
.
trying to do is not only b~tter coordinate our own resources
to react against domestic ,J-iolencein the United States, but
to reach out to other countries.
.
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For example,when~Iwas in Pakistan, prime.
Minister Bhutto was opening up special police stations so
that women w~o are subject Ito violence in their homes have a
place to go and to be~heard and get recourse of some kind.
So we are attempting, both [internallY within our own
government and externally, reaching out to 'keep this
discussion going and to demonstrate to other countries what
the united States is dOing/to fulfill its commitment, so
that it is not just bringing home the rhetoric, it is
actually bringing home an action plan.
.
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.QUESTION: Mrs. 'Cl~nton, I have heard you speak
before on the importance of women's polit1cal participation
and women's role in decisibn-making •. Itwas.amajor theme
at the Beijing conference, I as you know, and the' United .
States Government announcec;i two initiatives, complementary
initiatives in women's pol~tical rights and women's
political participation. .~ wonder if you could comment on
how you see women in decis~on-making and .women's political
participation in relation ~o some of the.initiatives to
alleviate poverty, to empower women across many different
. 1
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18
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sectors, and how that mightlplay out for an organization
such as the -World Bank and 9ther major donors.
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MRS. CLINTON: I hope that one of" the results of
Beijing will be to raise awareness ~bout women's political
participation and to cataly~e a variety of ways that each of
us can promote that. There/are small ways of doing it.
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When you attend mee~ings in some countries and you
know that there may be a woman buried in the bureaucracy who
has been working. on this and she is not invited to the
meeting, ask that she be th~re. When you make site visits
and you are taken to the ma1le leaaers -of the village or the
I
project and you know that women are ' .
d01ng at least half the
work, ask to see them. Tho~e are small, but significant
signals about who is important in the eyes of the World
Bank. I think any conversat1ions, Bank-to-government
conversations, and certainl¥ government-to-government
conversations should do thel same, to try to raise the role
of women. and their particip;ation. .
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'There is a funny pWenomenon going on in most· parts'
of the world, probably with' the exception of the
'
Scandinavian countries. Th'ere really is a noticeable pull
back in the participation 9f women at the highest levels of
decision-making, whether in the public or the private
sector.
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think some of th~t is due to the fact that most
women, regardless oftheirlincome in the world today, hold
down two full-time jobs, one in their home and one outside
the home, and the amount o~ energy that it is taking for
women to fulfill all those Iresponsibilities is very
draining, and politics has ,become, if not a disaster in
their eyes, certainly of no help to them, and so they have
withdrawn from political p~rticipation. We noticed that in
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voting numbers here even 1n our own country.
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So we have to make/these issues, whether it is
poverty alleviation or ending discrimination against women
and the treatment of domestic violence more real in the
lives of everyday women, sO that they will feel connected to
actions that seem abstract land distant from them and feel in
s~me way empowered to take/more authority over their own
l1ves.
.
,
So I think in both very small ways, each
make some points, and the'n in larger ways we can
try to link a lot of the work thati~ being done
changes will be in women'sllives if this work is
or if it is discontinued, so that they feel some
it.
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19
of us can
continue to
to what the
continued
stake in
�.
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Finally, I think e~erywhere we can work to
eliminate the barriers --to .~articipation that_.s_t.iIJ.!~t~Jst ~J.l1
many countries, we. should ~peak out again. And I think. that
goes back to the question ~bout your job is lending and how
far can you go in lending in terms of making both financial
infrastructure suggestions lor even linkages between what you
do and political change.
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But I certainly th~nk there. isa legitimate role,.
given what we know about hqw nations flourish if women are
active participants, that tt is in the long-term interest of
the Bank and its rate of return that you do link some of
this political participation and decision-making no behalf
of women with the projects Ithat you fund, and I think that
would begin to open some eyes that might not otherwise be
open.
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.QUESTION: 'r work in a region which is not
traditionally a region whete promotion of women has been
high on the agenda. NOw, those are also very hierarchical
societies andit.seemsto *s that the most important thing
is to qet commitment from the top of the political
leadership in those countries to putting women's issues
higher on their priorities~
,
Beijing was a good 1 step in that direction, but I
am afraid that quickly people will forget what happened in
Beijinq. since you are sojneone close to the toP,. what would
you recommend as strategy
a moving target. .
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What would you recommend as .~strateqies for
. re~ching those traditional/ political leade~s' in those
countries?
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MRS. CLINTON:
Oh, /. goodness, I don' t know.'
r think that one olf the ways that perhaps we all
could do more to work wi thl, as you say, hierarchica I
.
leadership in many countri1es, not just in that region of the
world, is to share some o~ this information with them about
the effects that investing in women have for the long-term
stability and prosperity df their country. . .
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I find it amazing /that many people really don't
know what you all know. When I was preparing for Beijing,
the best information I got were some early studies that had
been .done at the World Batik correlating investments in women
with outcomes for prosper~ty and democracy.
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. Some of the largelmultinational corporations'do
these ongoing assessments of where they are ,going to make
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20
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�investments, and one of the factors .they look at is how
women are ··treated.--·· But somel!low.-that~.information dQe~I)~1;.
conveyed effectively to the leadership in a lot of those
countries.
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I think it would be. very significant if a major
executive of a multinational! corporation, accompanied by a
major executive of the world/Bank, paid a calIon a lot of
these countries' leaders and did a presentation.' I know
that may sound simplistic, but I am convinced that a lot'of
that is just not known, it h~s not been sald often enough,
it is not yet absorbed.
t
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You cannot imagine hbw difficult it is to get
information like this across; to people, and I have seen .this
in my own country where· things that we take for granted,
those of us who know how. thelgovernment works, we are
stunned when we go out into ~he country and people don't.
know. So that would be onefuggestion.
I think some targeted presentations that don't
attempt to' make political po!ints so much as to inform
leaders about what it is tha1t multinational corporations and·
others look like~ I mean if you have a lot of natural
resources, they are going tO come to you anyway. They are
going to want to get it out I the ground and then they are
pf
going to want to leave you. : But -if you have. a more complex
economy or you are hoping toI' develop a more complex economy,
these factors are important.,
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Secondly I I think th1attalking
threatening than talking ab9ut women..
~bout
girls is less
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So I would tal~ a lot about girls and a lot about
daughters -- A lot about daughters and daughters'
opportunities. I have had s'everal conversations with
leaders in very, very conse~vative countries who have told
me how difficult it is to educate girls and to combat the
extremists in their own cultiure who are' against educating
girls, but how there seems tio be kind of an epiphany when it
comes to their daughters, arid to link that kind of
.
commitment to their daughters with commitment to other girls
who have promise I think is Ian effective way of beginning a .
conversation. Because if you start with young girls and you
educate young girls, then y~u do have at least an
opportunity for people to be less threatened for several
years, anyway. We w1ll 'deal w1th that later.
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I guess finally I thirlk that it goes back to the
points that several of you tilade. You know, this,difficulty
we find ourselves in in talking about very hard problems and
the consequences of all the· changes that we are confronting.
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and what it is doing to people's individual and collective
. ~:i~he is someth-lng we don' ha~e.. ~a~Y_~r.y_gQ()q' vocabula:t;y .~~.r ..
We are not doing a ~ery good job of articulating a
more positive vision. We ate not doing a. very good job in
this country, but frankly nObody: is doing a very good job',
around the world. 'We are c~ught in this transition that we
are trying to work our way through and we don't have an
adequate vocabulary to expr~ss what it is we are trying to
present as .analternative.j " .
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If the alternative is rampant. consumerism,
materialism, debasement of yalues and alienatIon, that is
not very attractive., And it people turn on their television
sets and they see the advanped world and·they look at both ,
men and women who are caugh~ in all,of the personal dilemmas,
that get portrayed endless pn telev1sion, why would anybody
want to change what they hare in order to move toward that?
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50 I think part of ~he West's ~nd the adva~ced
economies and however we want to descr1be what it 1S all of
us are try ing to communicat;e need to do is to spend some
,real time thinking through bow do we talk about it and how
are we honest about the sh1rtcomingS in our own society.
I mean it'is a little daunting to visit countries
that at least have the fee]ing that they are able to
,
'maintain a network of familial and kinship networks.that- are
very important to them and Ito see their panic at the idea
that they will be broken d9wn because of the intrusion of
the electronic media and the relentless pressures for
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consumption that, drives so Imuch of what they see happening
elsewhere, or when they see the breakdown of families and
the absence of' fathers and lall of the' other social problems..
When we were in Nicaragu~, therewas,a huge
billboard on the side of the road with a crying child
saying, ~'Father, why have you abandoned us? Please come
. home." And they have this Ihuge problem now because of war
and earthquakes' and everything else, where family structure
has just taken a terrible beating in the last decades. You,
find this litany of SOCial/problems that is marching its way
through the world connected in the minds of many
conservative leaders and many religious people with all that
they don't want. You 'knowl they link education with these
problems. They link credit or political participation.
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We ought to be rec~gnizing that this is a major
dilemma for us and there ought to be a way we can better
express both honestly the drawbacks we have in our .own
society and what we intend/as individuals and colle~tivelY,
22
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�to do about them, and the vision we have of what individuals
who are gi.v~n _a chance to e~press themselves, but can remain
rooted in culture arid -reflgt-on--a:nd the larger --society, ar.e
able to do if given the support to do so.
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So these are issues I that I would like to see all
of us spend some time thinkfng about, because. we don't
discuss them very well. Anp everywhere I travel, political.
leaders in democracies describe how their countries are
divided right down the midd[e.
s~paratist
Whether it is the
vote in Quebec,
whether it is Prime Ministe,r Rabin attempting to get the
Knesset to ratify his moves) toward peace, whether it.is
election after election where the margins are· razor thin and
people are very divided onel against the other, that should
tell us something, that th~re is a great deal of concern,
discontent, confusion abouti what the future means to all of
us. And those who believe ;in progress and development~
which includes everyone in1this room or you would not be
here, we must do a better job of expressing what we mean by
that in today's world, and/showing more respect for the'
moorings that culture and society give, but rejecting the
intolerance and thedivisi~eness that they also lead to.
.
I,
So until we can be~ter articulate what it is you
are doing to achieve, we w~ll continue to encounter
skepticism, as well as resistance, and we can only begin to
wear that down by trying to present a better vision that is
more honest and more inclusive about what it is we are
working toward in the 21st/century , and that is a cha~lenge
'for allot" us. None of us, in my view, is doing a very good
job of it. All of us are ~rying to find our way in our
words, and any help . that the World Bank could give on that
.
I
front I know many of us would welcome.
I
,
I
Thank you' very much.·
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23
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lissa Muscatine - Press Office
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993 - 1997
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a href="http://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36239" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2011-0415-S
Description
An account of the resource
<p>Lissa Muscatine first served in the Clinton Administration as a speechwriter. Within the First Lady’s Office, she served as Communications Director to the First Lady.</p>
<p>Lissa Muscatine’s records consist of materials from First Lady Hillary Clinton’s Press Office, highlighting topics such as health care, women’s rights, the Millennium Council, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and deal extensively with press interviews given by the First Lady; her domestic and foreign travel; and speeches and remarks, on a wide variety of topics, given by her before and during her time as First Lady. The records include interview transcripts, press releases, speeches and speech transcripts.</p>
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Adobe Acrobat Document
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
1,324 folders in 27 boxes
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Paper
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
HRC Greatest Hits [binder]: [Beyond Beijing, 11/8/95]
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Box 26
<a href="http://clintonlibrary.gov/assets/Documents/Finding-Aids/Systematic/2011-0415-S-Muscatine.pdf" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2011-0415-S
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Adobe Acrobat Document
Medium
The material or physical carrier of the resource.
Reproduction-Reference
Date Created
Date of creation of the resource.
11/26/2012
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
2011-0415-S-hrc-greatest-hits-binder-beyond-beijing-11-8-95
7431941