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THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
Monday, January 15, 1996
For Internal Use Only
INTERVIEW OF THE FIRST LADY
CONDUCTED BY JANE FULLERTON
ARKANSAS GAZETTE
(Inaudible. )
Q Well, let's go ahead -- since we've got a lot to
do, let's go ahead and get the -- let's get the Whitewater
out of the way, so w,e can get on to the book after that.
MRS. CLINTON:
Okay.
Q Let' ~ start by talking about the billing. records
and some of the questions from that, and then questions about
the Castle Grande' development ..
·e
MRS. CLINTON:
Right.
Right.
Q And the fact that there were approximately 14
conversations or discussions between yourself and Mr. Ward.
Can you tell me just what it was that you talked about during
those conversations?
MRS. CLINTON: Well, let me start by c
fying
something. Castle Grande refers to a trailer park on a much
larger piece of property.
I never did any work for Castle
Grande, and, sofar:as the buiiding records show, neither did
the Rose Law Firm. So when people ask about Castle Grande, I
know nothing about Castle Grande, and the appropriate
questions are about what the Rose firm did on behalf of what
we called IDC, which was the Industrial Development
Corporation, whic'h was the big purchase of land that was
done.
Now, I !have very little that I can tell you that I
remember, independent from what the billing records say,
because I don't. ' It was not a very big matter for me. There
were many other things I was working on at the same time, not
only at the Rose f'irm, but, you know, as a volunteer and
advocate, working at the governor's mansion, and the like.
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What the billing records suggest is that there were
numerous conversations and work that was done concerning an
option that was being considered.
I don't know much more
about it than that.
Q
Did you help to draft the option?
MRS. CLINTON:
I had something to do with the
option, based on the:time records, but I do not, at this
time, know exactly what I did.
I cannot tell you that.
I
can only tell you ,wh~t the time records show, which is that I
had something to do with it.
I think it is unlikely that I
would have drafted it, plus done everything else, in the two
hour period in whi,ch.the work is referenced, but that's all I
can tell you, and ,that's based on looking at the time
records, which - before they appeared, I had no independent
m'emory of that.
I,also ~upervised some l~gal research
like whether there could be a -- as I recall, a
that property, ho~ they were going to get sewer
services. But the only way I can tell you that
have now seen those billing records.
on issues
brewery -- on
and utility
is because I
Q What about the conversations with Mr. Ward?
you recall what you discussed during those at all?
Do
MRS. CLINTON: No, I don't.
I assume it was about
things like the brewery and utilities and this option, and
that's all I can ~ell you.
Q When you talk about the fact tha,t you worked on
. the IDC property, can you be more specific at all in terms of
what you did on that; as opposed to what people are calling
Castle Grande?
MRS. CLINTON:
I can only re
you to the billing
records. That's the'only information that I have. And they
speak for themselves, insofar as they are able to, but I'm
doing the best I can to answer questions about something that
happened 10 and 11, years ago that
even though I have a
.
pretty good memory, I do not have total recall, particularly
about events that were not very meaningful to me at the time,
and this was one of ~any, many things I did in the course of
my days, my weeks, my months, that didn't make any lasting
impression 'on me. And that's all I can tell you.
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Q Now,the RTC ended up criticizing that
particular deal, between Madison and Mr. Ward, pretty
significantly, and some of the Republicans on the Whitewater
committee have in~inuated that you, as an attorney, since you
had an affiliation with that agreement, in some way may have
fault for what the RTC ended up criticizing. How do you
respond to that?
MRS. CLINTON: Oh, I don't know how to respond to
that.
I think it~s ~omething w~'ll just have to leave for'
people to make up their own minds.
I've told you all that I
know that I did, and I have nothing further to add.
Q Let me ask you, on kind of a different angle -
Senator D'Amato has accused some of your staff and friends of
being somewhat less than forthcoming in their testimony, and
I'm just curious what you think of their testimony and the
fact that he has ~- I think you could characterize it as
threatened them -- with perjury charges. Just what do you
think of that potential out there, for them?
MRS. CLINTON:
I think there's no basis for that.
I think it's more of the pOlitical grandstanding we've seen
out of that committee.
I want to be very clear about this.
No documents were 'taken out of Mr. Foster's office the night
that he died. Maggie Williams has passed two independent
I
-detector tests -~ one, I think, was conducted by the
FBI - verifying her' story.
I did not direct anyone to
interfere in any investigation.
But I don't find it unusual that, in the wake of
. shock and trauma and'tragedy, people could not tick off, with
perfect recall, exac~ly what they said, when, to whom.
I
know perfectly, well what I was talking about with them and
others of my friends during that very painful time. We were
talking about how;this could have happened, how Vince's
family was holding up, our own personal grief. You know,
there were times when people, including, you know, members of
my staff -- when one or the other of us was crying on the
phone.
So I know exactly what we were talking about.
I
cannot tell you what I said, when. And I also know what we
were not talking about. We were not talking about documents
or anything other than how we felt about this unbelievable
occurrence.
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Q Now t'm:going to ask you -- I know you've been
asked this question before, but I'm going to go ahead and ask
it again.
Couldn ':t you just go ahead and clear up a lot of
these questions, and, maybe keep your staff and some of your
friends from having to appear again, if you just went up and
voluntarily testified before the committee, or held a news
conference, something in a public forum, along those lines?
Is that something you would consider?
MRS. CLINTON: Well, I am speaking out very
frequently.
I am going to answer every question anybody
poses to me, in as many different ways as I can, and I will
cooperate, as I have, in every way possible, with anyone who
is trying to get to the truth of this matter.
Nobody wants this over with more than I do. So I
will continue to do everything that I can to try to bring
this to a close.
Q ,So would you rule out the concept of testifying
before D'Amato's Whitewater committee?
MRS. CLINTON:
I'll do whatever I can to cooperate.
Q On a different topic, let me ask you about Mr.
Watkins' memo.
In that memo; he characterizes the White
House -- he characterizes you as a driving force in the
Travel Office firings, and as staff members being frightened
of you.
Can you ~ell me, why would he make that kind of a
characterization if it weren't true?
MRS. CLINTON: Well, I think you have to ask him,
and he'll have a dhance to speak for himself.
I think that
it's well known,-~ a~d I have said for a number of years
now -- that I did ,express concern about the reports of
financial mismanagement in the White House Travel Office, and
that an independent accounting firm found that there was
cause for people to be concerned, and action was taken. But
I did not direct the ,action, and Mr. Watkins' memo does not
say I directed any a~tion.
But I also think it's fair to say that there is
something about being in the White House that does magnify
people's words, so' that, if my husband says, for example, he
likes bananas, all of a sudden,everywhere he goes, there are
bunches of bananas. 'He doesn't -- you know, that's something
we've h~d to learn; being here, and it is one of the lessoris
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that we've learned. : So that my very expression of concern,
which is what it ~as~ could be heard differently, third-,
fourth-, fifth-, six~h-hand. And, since Mr. Watkins doesn't
say I ever told him to do anything, but it was just the
impression that peopie had, I can't speak to that.
But I certainly do not in any way back off from
saying that I did express concern, because I did.
Q I'm curious. When was the last time you or your
husband was in contact with Mr. Watkins? What kind of
relationship is ther~ now?
MRS. CLINTON:
I can't speak for my husband.
I
don't know that.
But I haven't seen or talked to him for
quite some time.
I Gouldn't tell you exactly when.
Q He is just one of the many Arkansans who
followed you --you and your husband -- up here with high
hopes for what was going to be done for the country, and a
number of those people have met with controversy or some
disappointment -- Mr: Watkins, Mr. Foster, Mr. Hubbell, Mr.
(inaudible), and some of those people. How do you react to
that, on the human level, kind of on a personal level, in
terms of what has happened to some of those people who came
with you to Washington?
)
MRS. CLiNTON: Well, it saddens me greatly that
anyone -- not only those of us from Arkansas, but anyone
has had any difficulty. But I think the bigger and more
important story for the country is how much has been
accomplished and what important work many Arkansans have done
in this administration.
Look at the work James Lee Witt has
done.
It has been extraordinary. Bob Nash is now the head
of personnel in the White House, and he's the first African
American man ever to.be an' assistant to the president. He is
performing, as you would expect, admirably.
I think; if you look at many of the other
Arkansans, throughout the government, there is so much to be
proud oE,' and thciti story doesn't get told, and I wish that
the Democrat-Gazette'would start profiling the many, many
succes$.stories of people frqm Arkansas who not only have
done great jobs, but'have contiibuted to the successes of
this administ,ration" because any fair reading of what has
been done the la/?tjthree years demonstrates that the
president has ad:::omplished much of what he set out to do,' and
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he has also held the line against a lot of the efforts in the
current Congress to turn the clock back on programs like
Medicare and Medicaid, because he knows what life was like in
Arkansas and how important that is for people.
So that, to me~ is balanced against the sadness
that you feel anyt;:im~ people you know encounter trouble.
Q Let me ask just one more along these lines. The
whole cumulative effect of all of this stuff has been to
raise questions about your credibility with a lot of the
people in the public~ and now the timing of this is not only
just as you are starting your book tour, but as the
reelection campaign is getting ready to begin, as well.
So,
in essence, this time around, you have also become a
character issue, so called, in the media. How do you respond
to that, and how will that affect your campaign role, if at
all?
MRS. CLINTON:
I don't think it will affect my role
at all.
I think that much of this is politics as usual, and
it's just more heated now that it's a presidential election
year.
I think that goes with the territory.
It's not
pleasant to live thr6ugh.
It is certainly regrettable for
our political system that that has happened .. You know, the
president, I think, said the other day that there have been
more than 40 hearings on Whitewater and only one on the
future of Medicare.
So I understand that this is part and parcel of
what happens in the political system today, but I'm going to
talk about my boo~; +'m going to go and talk about the issues
that I've worked on for more than 25 years, about children;
I'm going to support,my husband in his efforts to save
Medicare and Medicaid and education and environmental
investments we have. And I have a great deal of faith in the
fundamental fairness of the American people. They will see
this for what it is; ,they will make their own decisions about
me as a person, about the president as a person and as a
president.
So that's how I think this will play out over the
next year.
I
Q So you see yourself taking the same kind of
active role in the campaign that you have always done?
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MRS. CLINTPN: Absolutely.
I believe strongly in
all of the issues that the president is standing up for, and
I will do whatever I can to help him.
Q Okay. Now we',re all done with that.
about the book for a while.
MRS. CLINTON:
Let's talk
Mm-hmm.
Q Much of' the - let me start by asking this,
though. Must of the attention, at least inside the Beltway,
has focused on travel arrangements and who wrote the book and
questions like that.
That's got to be frustrating to you.
MRS. CLINTON: Yeah, but after you've been here a
while -- you know, it took me about, oh, a ye~r to figure out
that this place is not like any other place, and so I now
just have to accept ~hat.
I've learned a lot in the three
years I've been here.
What's important is that this book is about what
America should do for its children, and "it takes a village"
is the idea that all~f us have ~ role in helping to raise
our children. That means we can mentor or tutor a child, or
try to protect children from the violence and destructive
behavior on the television tha~ they see, or persuade
businesses to be friendlier to families.' And I just hope
that this message, about children, gets out broadly to the
American people, despite the stOrm over Whitewater, because
these are the issues,that, as a mother, as a woman, as a
long-time volunteer and worker on behalf of children, and as
a First Lady, that r~ally matter to me and the people that I
talk with.
So I have very lit~le control over a lot of the
other stuff that happens, but I can take every chance
available to me to talk about, what should we do to better
educate our children? What can parents do, starting
tomorrow, in Littie Rock or Blytheville or Fayetteville, to
get their children better prepared for school? How can
teachers bring out the best in each child and not just put
them into cookie-cutter education formulas? What can we do
to control the TV? Turn it off, for one thing; band together
with other parents to protest programs that are destructive.
There are many ideas' in here that will work.
And so that's my
bigges~
hope: - that I can have a
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chance to talk about: these ideas, so that other people can do
what they can do to help our children.
Q A lot of the ideas that you talk about include a
very substantial role for the government, in terms of health
care, day care, Head Start, some of those kinds of programs.
Given the current' t~nor of the time, sort of the anti~
government mood, do you think that those are realistic
proposals, that that's something that can actually happen?
MRS. CLINTON: Well, I think what's important about
this book is that i~ is not a book about government.
It is a
book about families.
It's a book about neighborhoods.
It's
a book about schools: and churches.
It's a book about the
media.
It's a b09k about businesses.
It's a book about
service.
It's a book about all the different aspects of our
lives together.
There is a role for government, but I think the
debate over our children's future has been much too skewed
toward what the government should or shouldn't do.
Instead,
we should ask, what each of us can do.
I do believe that
every child, whether through private insurance or public
insurance, ~hould be insuted for health care. Others
disagree with that, but I believe it's important for children·
to be as healthy ~s possible.
But I also: believe businesses should recognize that
every business is a family business, and when they make
decisions about their workers, they're making decisions about
people who are also parents.
And there are many other institutions in our
society.
I think that the role of the government is
necessarily limited, and what it does it should do well.
That's what the president has been doing for the last three
years. You know, my husband has lowered the size of the
federal government to the smallest it's been in 35 years, and
by the end of this year, without the Republican Congress
doing anything, it will be the smallest it's been since the
1930s, because he knows that big government is not the
answer, but that good, effective government, in partnership
with families and with schools and with businesses and every
other institution, is how we build the village that I think
our children need.
Q
You also talk about divorce and how it affects
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children in the book, and you told Barbara Walters that you
had never considered divorce, despite ups and downs in your
own marriage. But T'm curious. A lot of commentators have
pointed out the fact that your husband has gotten more flak,
so to speak, for keeping the marriage together than other
politicians have got.ten who have ended up divorced. Do you
find a little irony 'in that?
MRS. CLINTON: Well, I don't want to speak for
anybody else's perceptions, but I think that what's important
is that we now face up to the evidence we have:
that divorce
is not good for children. There are situations where
violence and abuse are present, where, as I say in the book,
divorce should be considered, probably sooner instead of
later. But most instances of divorce are not that kind of
dramatic violence en~ountered.
And so, where children are involved, I believe
couples should work as hard as they can to keep their
marriages together. ,. I think we should have what I call
braking mechanisms in the law, so that couples have to attend
education and counseling sessions to understand the impact of
divorce on children.: And, if divorce occurs, I would just
hope that the adults would put the best interests of the
children first.
YQu know, I know, from my own law practice over the
years, that, you know, when people are caught up emotionally,
as they are in a divorce, they may do things that are not in
their children's ~est interest. They may try to turn their
children against the. other parent. They may try to use their
children as barga~ning chips in a support or property
distribution agreement. And I'm just begging people not to
use their children in that way.
My wish would be that families would be intact and
adults would be devoted to their children, and that divorce
would be harder for families with children, but that, if
divorce comes,· it be done in a way that tries to minimize the
damage to children.
Q Now let~s talk about your own child for a
minute, if we could. You all have really gone great lengths
to protect her since she's been here in the White House. Do
you feel pretty comfortable with the upbringing she's had
during t'hese first t1;1ree years?
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MRS. CLINTON: That is one thing that I feel very
grateful about:
that we have been able to keep her out of
the public eye, to be sure she could get a private life. And
I think that's one dt' the most important things that we've
been able to achieve in the last three years, and I'm very
hopeful that we can keep it up for the rest of the time that
we're here.
Q I know you talk about this some in the book, but
can you discuss agai:n just how she copes and how you help her
to cope with some: of these negative images, of yourself and
your husband, that are portrayed out there in the media and
by your critics?
MRS. CLIN~ON: Well, when she was about 6 and we
knew that she would start reading and hearing things about
politics, we thoughi it was important to bring her in as a
participant in our lives and in her father's life in public
service, so we began, ,around' the dinner table at the
governor's mansion,to try to explain to her how elections
worked and tell her that sometimes people said mean things
'and, you know, made up stories about you, and that was all,
unfortunately, pa~t ~f being in public life the~e days.
I
'
And we even did little mock debates, where she
would pretend to be her father. And I remember the first
time we did this,: arid I said,"Well,Chelsea, if you were
your daddy, what would you say?" She was 6 years old, and
she said, "I'm Bill.Clinton, and I try to help people, so
please vote for me." I said, "Well, that's really good. Now
your daddy's going t,o pretend to be somebody running against
him." So Bill said, "Bill Clinton's a terrible person. He's
a mean to people. You know, don't vote for him," and she got
very upset, hearing even her father pret~nd to criticize
himself.
So I was glad that we had begun this process in the
privacy of our own h,ome, to help prepare her for being the
child of somebody, in public life.
It is not a fair
experience for children to be basically turned into political
pawns or for them', to feel that they can't help their parents.
And so I wanted her, you know, to know that these were things
that were going to happen, and we would do our best to, you
know, keep her informed and help her to deal with things.
Q Has she been able to deal with that as she's
gotten older and things have gotten more negative?
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MRS. CLINTON: Yes. She is very knowledgeable
about politics an~ about the g~mes that are played and the
partisanship that'has taken over much of our political life.
Q
Chelsea's going to be 16 next month.
MRS. CLINTON:
Right.
I know . . Much to my regret.
Is she still
Q Well, tell me just a little bit.
working on the driving up here? I saw the story that the
Is she still working on
president told about' Camp David.
that here? How about that dating thing? Is she working on
that?
'
MRS. CLINTON: She dates.
She has -- yeah, she has
many, many friends, boys and girls. And she'll get a
driver's license when the time is right.
Q
I like that little hedge in there.
MRS. CLINTON: Yes. Well, her father and I are
still thinking of ways to stall, but we're not sure we're
going to be successful.
Q
about that?
What about college? Has she started thinking
Is she a sophomore or a junior?
MRS. CLINTON:
She's a junior.
Q Oh, ~o she's kind of -- is she going to start
looking thl$ spring at colleges?
MRS. CLINTON:
I don't know what -- you know, we
haven't really focused on that yet. That's another thing I
want to put off as lbng as possible.
Q
I bet. , I bet.
,
What's she interested in maybe doing?
MRS. CLINTON: She's very interested in many
different-things, 'and she loves school. S~ it will be, you
know, an exciting adventure for her when she eventually gets
to go off to college" maybe when she's like 30 or 35.
Q My next question is, so how are Mom and Dad
coping with this? . I
. .
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MRS. CLINTON: We are not doing well. This is not
something that we talk about a lot in our house. We talk
about politics, but we don't want to deal with the really
important stuff, like, you know, "Don't go to college. We're
going to miss you too much."
(Laughter. )
Q
I can only imagine.
I can only imagine.
Well, let me ask you -- I've got one final question
now. Assuming that your husband wins a second term, when you
all get done, you!re' still going to be very, very young, too
young to retire . . So have you thought about what you might
want to do then?
And, of course, let me tag on here, have you
thought about runnin~ for office yourself?
MRS. CLINTON: But you're right.
I mean, I do
believe that my husband will win a second term,· which I think
will happen because of the job he's done and what he's doing
now, and we will be L_ you khow, as it gets closer, it seems
younger and younger ~- and then we'll have our whole life
ahead of us, and I don't know what we'll do.
We're very open to new ideas and adventures all the
time. We'll just have to wait till that comes, I guess, in
the year 2001 or something.
Q
So you really haven't thought about it?
MRS. CLINTON: No. Apparently we're going to have
to make some money, since we're bankrupt, because of these
legal expenses. And;, you know ,that's something we have to
take very seriously, because I always paid my bills; we've
always paid everything that we owned anyone. So we will take
that obligation seriously, as well.
And, you know, we won't have a house. You know,
we'll start pretty much from scratch when he finishes being
president, plus having to payoff this rather enormous debt.
I
Q
Yeah~
.
Yeah.
MRS. CLINTON:
That's true.
That's true.
But we'll have fun, whatever it is.
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Q All right. Well, that's great.
my whole list of questions.
,
MRS. CLINTON:
Q
I got through
Good.
Which I, did not expect to do.
MRS. CLINTON:
everything.
And you're color-coordinated and
(Laughti=r .')
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lissa Muscatine - Press Office
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993 - 1997
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a href="http://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36239" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Identifier
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2011-0415-S
Description
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<p>Lissa Muscatine first served in the Clinton Administration as a speechwriter. Within the First Lady’s Office, she served as Communications Director to the First Lady.</p>
<p>Lissa Muscatine’s records consist of materials from First Lady Hillary Clinton’s Press Office, highlighting topics such as health care, women’s rights, the Millennium Council, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and deal extensively with press interviews given by the First Lady; her domestic and foreign travel; and speeches and remarks, on a wide variety of topics, given by her before and during her time as First Lady. The records include interview transcripts, press releases, speeches and speech transcripts.</p>
Provenance
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Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
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Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
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Adobe Acrobat Document
Extent
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1,324 folders in 27 boxes
Text
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Original Format
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Paper
Dublin Core
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Title
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FLOTUS Press Office Interview Transcripts Volume V 10/19/94 - 04/10/97 [Binder]: [01/15/96 Fullerton, Jane Arkansas Democrat Gazette]
Is Part Of
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Box 6
<a href="http://clintonlibrary.gov/assets/Documents/Finding-Aids/Systematic/2011-0415-S-Muscatine.pdf" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Creator
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First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Identifier
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2011-0415-S
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
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Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
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Adobe Acrobat Document
Medium
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Reproduction-Reference
Date Created
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11/26/2012
Source
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2011-0415-S-flotus-press-office-interview-transcripts-volume-v-10-19-94-04-10-97-binder-01-15-96-fullerton-jane-arkansas-democrat-gazette
7431941