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',Jam.fary 13, 1996
RADIO NEWS PROGRAM
,HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON
"FIRST LAD:Y OF 'THE UNITED STATES
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" WASHINGTON, D. C.
MRS. CLINTON ISA GUESr ON: NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO ,WEEKEND
EDIT~ON.
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" ,INTERVIEW" WITH FIRST LADY HILLARY RQDHAM: CLINTON ON, NATIONAL
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'PUBLIC' RADIO'S WEEKEND EDITION
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JANUARY 13,',1996
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HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FIRST LADY OF,THE UNITED
SPEAKERS LIST:
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SCOTT SIMON, NPR
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SIMON: ,>This isWEEKENO,EOITIQN., I'm scott Simon.,
Hillary'RodhamClintohbeg.n ~ book toui this week, but she'S n6t asked
many questions about that book, r'It Takes a Village," which details Mrs.
Clinton's concerns for America's' children.
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At the same time a ~enate60m~ittee,is investigating herl~gal and
financial affairs during th~ ~id~1980's, when she was
a partner ,in the Rose Law F~rm' o:f LittleRock;' her husband was governor of
Arkansas, and the- f irm reRres~nt!ed Madison Guaranty Savings' & Loan, a '
financial institution own~d b~ ~ friend of~he Clintonswho, was also their
psrtner in the ,failed investm~n~now known:as Whitewate~.'
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Just this week'a lawye~iri.tHa ROse fir~, RichardMas~ey, disputed some of
Mrs. Clintbn,'s recollections of how the firm c~me,to represent Madison and
what she did for them.
Last week an old memo'"was discovered which said Mrs.
Clintori had order firings in ~h~ White Houseiravel' office.
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weinter~i~wedHillarY:Rod~a~
Off ice Building.
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CLINTON:
You know, we've been through thiS now for four years, and it
Atartect' 6ff as one thing and every time a particular set of charges are '
~isproved and questions answered, the ground shifts. ' And there,' s never any
stable ground to stand on to sa~, OK, everybody, let's take a deep br~ath.
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Well , let me askw,hat; seems to :be the question 'of the week.
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had, for a couple of years, people were interested in obtaining copies of the
biiling records of the'. Rose Law Firm in Little Rock. And now they're
discovered.'
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CLINTON:
SIMO~:
R~ght.
No~, where were they ~ll thatti~e?
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CLINTON: I have no idea.' :But 11m delighted they were discovered, because
once again they prove,what It ~e ~een sayingfor four years,· based mostly on my
own·~emory and whatever infor~ation was revealed.
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And' that's what I mean about the shifting grounds,' Scott. I 'mean, a ~onth
ago .we were accused of, destro.¥i'ng ,the records. They do turn up, and I have no
idea' where 'theY've been, and, :of [course, the time is .notgreat for me. since
lId much rather talk to you about my book than these records. But 11m
. delighted they're out there, b~cause they confirm whatI~ave been saying.·
SIMON:
That the work you,<Hdifor' Madison Savings & Locinwas minimal., :.
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CLINTON:
Exactly.'
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. guess t;he records indicate this
1;:hat you made a call. toa state· securities
commissioner at the t,ime that; Ma~iison needed the Commi?sion t S approval to
proceed with a stock plan?
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CLINTON: Well, my memory abo~t that is that· I',called the office.' I do not
believe I ever talked with thecpmmfssioner. And the reason I'called is that
we didn·l.t know ~- namely, Mr. i Massey and.the law firm ~- who in the securities
ffice was to handle this kind of work,' because It was something new for
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• rkansas -~ other states had dorie it -- and the idea was ,to firid out whether
it was legal under state law.; ' . ' ,
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And the securities' commiss;ion~r., under Arkansas law· at ,that time,· had
responsibility for supervising savings & loans, but. I never knew who that
person was, and so J calledtbf~nd out •. I'm not even sure that. I identified
myself, but I have no ,memory of having ~alked 'to the commissioner about this
matter. I wouldn I t have known what to talk' abo,ut.. It m not an expert in
:securities law, and as· I havel'sa.id repeatedly, .was. minimally inyolved in the
representation. ' . '
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SIMON: 'Well, let me ask, yoti'know, when --'the cribbihg 1:hat'goes back
and forth between how many ho:Urs amount to 'What. There's·this story about a
man's got his·drainstopped,iariq a· plumber comes over, taps it once, drain.'
begins to flow, and he turns 'to;the fellow' who called him and said, '~That's
be a hundred .dollars;"
And ~h~man'says, "A hundred dollais for tapping ,the
pipe? That ridiculous."
And ~he plumber says, "No, no. That's $5 for
.tapping the.pipe -- 95'is to,kn9w ~here to .tap it."
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Now, when you are Hillary Rodh,am Cll.nton and you are the spouse of the
governor of th~state, one ption, 6a~l that is two minutes can mea~ a lot to
someboqy·.1
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CLINTON: Well, it COUld, :bU:t in' this instance it· did' not, because,
despite Mr.. Massey 'sexcellent ~ork -- and 'he t s a very fine lawyer
Madison
didn't get permission·todo what it wanted to do.
~aking th~t
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point, :that perhaps in retrospect I would never have
even p~cked up the phone to raIl and say, qee, who handles S&L matters. in th~
securi~ies commissioner.
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the, securities commissioner?
CLINTON:' I'didn't think, that that was, you know, anything that was
inappropriate. ,And then to tell Mr,.. Massey who he should call ,and who he
should deal with.
And so, for ~e, .the idea ~h~t We'keep having these house of cards built.
You know~ I practiced law in A~kansas, for many years. People have gone over
my life and my professionil work *it~ the finest of tooth' combs, and
apparently th~yare still trying to claim, that on this one instance, out of
all the,work r did, som~thing~ust have happ~ned.'
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Yet', to me and many' others' who: look: at this fairly', none of us, can figure
out what they think it was.j
,SIMON: I was jntrigued by something;
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Judiciary Commi ttee. . .
You were a lawyer on the House
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That's
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SIMON:, ' ..' .:duringthe wate'r'!ate impeachment i),earings ..
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CLINTON': "That,' s. right .
SIMO~: AndI'mjustwonder~ng:that,
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if':youcould put yourself back in
that frame of mind once again, ifithe Nixon White House had come'to your
committee and said, ~'Those,records y~u've b~en'asking for'for two years, we
'found them", suddenly we found them~ and~ here they are," would you have
~cc~pted th~t explan~tion:wi~h~a :~traight face?
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CLINTON:I thirik w~, would have been del:ighted. 'The problem .back then,
you'll remember,.", is that docum~nts were' d~stroy~d, tapes were missing 18 and a
half minutes. The White House:was not cooperating. They were claiming
executive privilege on ever~p~eceofpaper.'
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I think the contrast is .50 dratnatic ~ We want. the. truth to get
would just love to have thismatt~r brought to an,end~
out~,
We
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I't's a little bit odd that here 'we are, 'both my husband and I, nearly .sO
years old" which is hard to believe, we don't own a house -- w,e own half of
the house that my mother lives, in:, 'in order to help support her -- he has his
1968 Mustang', I have my 1986 Oldsmobile ,Cutlass. ,A recent magazine said that
with our .legal,bills we are barkrupt.soi if we had intended to trade on my
position, I've done a very poor j~b of it.
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fired?
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ever say
anyon~ in'~he Whit~
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office should be
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' . ' CLINTON:,' No. But ",1 did exp::e:ss concern about the reports of 'financial
smanagemeht in the travel offlcethat, pre-dated my husband coming ihto
.office,and" tharikfully"that.¥~~ taken care ,of. But I did not make the
decision about what was don~, nor'did I direct th~t any p~rticular decision
be taken.
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�SIMON:, ,Is it just possible ~n ~the ,human game of telep~one ,that Hillary
Rodham Clinton s~ys, --r'm conc~rned'abbut the travel office, we ought to look
into that,," and eventually tha~ 9,ets, translated by aides who were ,'anxious t~
Plase you "as' I Iclean house. ': I : ': ' "
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~LINTON:
Well, I canlt specul~te on what d1d or did n6t happen. I.only
'know what I said and what Iint.ended to convey.
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Mind lf we,talk about your book a·little?
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I would love tota;lk'about my book.
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SIMON: All right. ' Change of pace. A lot, of it is much more sad ground, ',.
, because you say in the ~ook tha~ despit~ the fact that we rhetorically say
children, are .our most important commodities .:.- no pun intended, talking about'
your financial affairs.'.. ' ,', '.l : , " "
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lovethat~
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SIMON: Just occurred to me 'wh~nI said it, I'm afraid -- but that you say
we often donI t, invest in ,our, molst~precious ,commodities I ' as we should.
CLINTON: Right. Right. UnllJ.ie stock~ and ,bonds ,:and commodities' that are
traded in a market, which isou't there, 'to be· invested' in, and you can see the
immediate return -- you either maJ{e money oriyou lose money ..;.- our children
deserve a much more, careful and long-term investment.
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"discipline of gratitude.' I . ' '
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Right.'
Right'~
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SIMON: Interesting idea,' that~you need
',to be grateful ,for. '
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remind yourself what you ought
CLINTON: It is. That came Ito me, really~-as a gift iti.1993, which was a
,very'difficult year forme per~on~lly. It ,started 6f~ with such a great high,
with my husband's inauguration,' artd suchhope~" arid then shortly after~my
(ather was stripken bya stroke a~d died.
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stroke'and died •.
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CLINTON: Our friend Vince Foster killed himself.' Throughout that year, I
knew that'my mother-in~lawwas:muph, much sicker than she l~t on and, in the
fall, lea~ned,·that .she:only haa ~ few months t~live~ and indeed, she'died
before the year waso~t.,
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Sol' had,torealli dig down,pr~tty deep ~n my own resources~ and ,luckily,
I had people who sent ~ebookst~ read,gavemefavorite scriptures, shared'
with me the stories of how, like ~e,.they would just~et tbeir eyes welling
up. : I would be standing in a rec,eiving line and something would re~indmeof'
my father: ,and I'd wonder whet~erl my mascara was goi~gto run~
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And there was a 'book by .Henri Nowen' (ph), the Jesuit theologian, ,arid, it
was about the. Prodigal Son. A~d ,'1 you know, 'sometimes it's good to be reminded
that people don't get what, they, .t,hi,nk they deserve, that life is unfair, that
everyone' of us is. going to enl?ounter' obst'acles.. '
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So the Whole book, was helpful ,! but iri i t'wa,s this, phrase
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discipline of gratitude."
'And I' had never'thought of gratitude being a
discipline. And I began to do: that. I mean every day, no matter what" is
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happening' around me,.I'consciousi'y try to discipline. my own. feelings and my
mind about what I have to be 'grateful for, because by any stretch of' the
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,.gination --:- ,even' during the: worst times, ,when people ar.e accusing me of
1ngs' andd01ng alltha~they; do.-- I'm a very luckyp~rson.,
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that?
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CLINTON:,Oh, I donlt thinK·so.
SIMON: .' ,I mean 'did .you, evel;,;, qack' in the,' 60s, ,between when,
I believe,. you were a Goldwater Girl. •. ~'
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in the conservatism·that.:i wasi:.rciised with.'; I don't 'recognize this new brand
of Republicanism that's afoot :now, which I consider to be ,very reactionary ,
not ,conservati~e, in marly res~ec~s. ~I'~ ~ery proud th~t I was ,a Gpldwater
Gir 1.
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. And then my political belie:fs'changed over time, but I've always,thought
. that the role of , citizen, ,th~ :role of advocate, were as impol;~antin, our
democracy as running forof.fice, :and so it's not anything I've ever, you know,
seriously considered. .
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-- and I hope I've done. this dver the. year ~~,I've never used the term --first
lady, " because it struck me"qs ~ntiquated. Do you use that, term?
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using it, .becauseit is·atradition that we think started·with Martha
washington .. So it's not the termlso:much, it's the expectations that
surround the rol~ that I find fas6inating.
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1 have spent. a' 'lot of time in the... last se~veral years l:"eading' about my
• edecessors and have discovered that nearly everyone of them had a kind of.
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bumpy time here, because there~s really no way to satisfy the· extraordinary
'expectations that are putuponith~'. person who is married to the president~
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cautionary ,tale, 'to realize;th~t ~he women wh~'~e been here before'.have
encountered manydifferent.kinds pf challenges.
And at the end of the day, you·haveto be yourself. You have to say and
. stand 'for what ,you··believe i'n!' i 'iPU l)ave. to, be' willing to ·get up and, go ahead
and take the slings andarrows;anp. just try 'to persist through them, because
it's apparently'an ine:ritablepartOf'our American democracy. ,
SIMON: For ~xample/if I'm~y,: wheIT~- there'sa--William Safire'of 'The
New York Times. said very ,bluntly ,.;in a. colum~, this week that he didn I t believe.
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SIMON: . And then through Mr;.Mccurry, the Preside.nt' s press secretary, 'it
was communicated that· your husband. took exception of.the kind he would like to
applyt6Mr. Safire's nose, I~eqall.
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CLINTON: •. But'with a smile~'
. SIMON':"NO, ·unde~s;tood,:IthiJ'lk,'6n all sides. But·the sugg~stionof'that
seemed t,o be this is ·personalcr~ticism .·thatthe. columnist. is leveling, and
so, therefore, I 'mgoing to' take';personal e:l:'ception.when you talk that way
about my partner in life.,'
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,But ~as,it pe;rsonal? . was'i!t uncalled for? . I mean, he was talking
Mr.
Safire w~s'talking about your ~ecordas an. attorn~y a~da public ~igure.· Did
you take personal exception ·t6that?
CLINTON: Well, I don't take'whatMr.Safiresays very seriously. As you
pointed out, I 'was working forthecommitte~ that impeached President Nixon,
for whom Mr. Safire worked and, . best I.can .
tell,:is, ' still working . . '
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.. Ii)',fa.ct,mymother·'took someoffensej' because being called' a "congenital
liar' 'seemsto'reflect badly:on:her and my' late father. But, you know, I
really have much ~oadd;tor that . .'.
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to
, sIMoi.n See,' I w~sn ~t going
repeatth~' phra~e . because I don't want your
husband to punch me in the nqse~: We're right nearby, after all.
SIMON:
Thank you·for
~ll
your time.on .a snowy day.
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lissa Muscatine - Press Office
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993 - 1997
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a href="http://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36239" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2011-0415-S
Description
An account of the resource
<p>Lissa Muscatine first served in the Clinton Administration as a speechwriter. Within the First Lady’s Office, she served as Communications Director to the First Lady.</p>
<p>Lissa Muscatine’s records consist of materials from First Lady Hillary Clinton’s Press Office, highlighting topics such as health care, women’s rights, the Millennium Council, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and deal extensively with press interviews given by the First Lady; her domestic and foreign travel; and speeches and remarks, on a wide variety of topics, given by her before and during her time as First Lady. The records include interview transcripts, press releases, speeches and speech transcripts.</p>
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
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Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
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Adobe Acrobat Document
Extent
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1,324 folders in 27 boxes
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
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Paper
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
FLOTUS Press Office Interview Transcripts Volume V 10/19/94 - 04/10/97 [Binder]: [01/13/96 NPR (National Public Radio) Weekend Edition]
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Box 5
<a href="http://clintonlibrary.gov/assets/Documents/Finding-Aids/Systematic/2011-0415-S-Muscatine.pdf" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2011-0415-S
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
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Adobe Acrobat Document
Medium
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Reproduction-Reference
Date Created
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11/26/2012
Source
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2011-0415-S-flotus-press-office-interview-transcripts-volume-v-10-19-94-04-10-97-binder-01-13-96-npr-national-public-radio-weekend-edition
7431941