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https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/files/original/ae4f48e9932bc18e0624e6c06ab07235.pdf
3203a3a22ec7f9dd6c69ab538d464ea2
PDF Text
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. , THE' 'WHITE HOUSE·
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"August .24, 19,94
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It;'~a ,great h'o~O'r, a, reaiiy ~Teat hon()~to h~ve' thi,s' ,
'·irit'er"iew' ,with ,both of. you, and particlJ,larly" 'at:a' time. when, things are ;,'
bllsy and, pe9plew'ant ,to~g?' on ,Va9atlonanci"so ,.forth,., . So'; I, greatly
appreciate. i1;:.l/ an~,' of .course" "this,wil,l.pe fdr;the,40th anniversary' ,
, iss,ue' cj.f Am'er'ican 'Her1itage Magaz ~ne ~ \ ; " \,
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,','; And l.,ntalkl.ng. wl.tl:ltl}e ,edl.tprs ,there and :thlnkl.ng about ,this."":
a~ticle, . ~we' wantedtq, sort ::of 190k at th.~",larger. forees' of hist~::iry: 'tHat ,:
'. may 'hav~"influenced lboth of youi,that"may .n<;mrish b~t):l of,y6u'n,0w; that'
':may,pr6viqe:'~upport; "andthpt in 'sdme, sense prp'yide.,alsoia 's,ep'se'of'~
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comfort" and a' 'sense' 6.f.direct:io,n' that you, have \ in ,seeing' that other'
Presidents andFirst~adies, have gcme through!,difficlJ,lt \ctimes'"'that' "
, ',', there :'hav~, ,~eeri 'other moments in h~st()ry:when "pres idents ,have wanted ,to~ , '
, ini t.i:ate ,great improvement, :great: chang~, for the country ,and h'av.e'h,ad
,>sdineti 1l1 es' difficulty in,; doing; thcit, ,hut 'have forg'ed ahea(;i' with ,the lc;>ng" ,
view.for ,the good,: of the"'c,ouhtri and 'not', a' short :view. ,:, ' " .', " ,
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the 'press':$ecl:"etary': ,
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. 'INTERVTEW:OF'
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.: <.THE PRESIDENT AND. ··THE' FIRST LADY,
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BY CARL ANTHONY ',OF AMEJncAN' 'HERITAGEMAG~~nNE,
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Internal, Transcript', ,
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I;mthinkJhg"part\f~lJ,lariy'thiswe~k,"the:(i.rSt q~e~tion
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. , 'might ··ask ,you,' is,:";have you' looked ,at·o.thei: Presidents·'. legislation,
, , .,' 'presidEhits, W?O ,have ';h!=l.~' diff icu~ ty \~(;inet-i,n:tes, cjet,ting :it, through.'J .'.'
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• Congress,;', Presldents ~J:'keWoodrow W.1lson, ·for example, who J1,?-d a
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particular dreani 'w,fth: the'Le1?gue of"NAtions? ,: And"have youdrawIi"sOIlle
,com'fo~t arid instdr~'tion 'fr:om:tpa~?' . " '
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~'THE PRESIDENT: :y,d;'; I 'ahdof courr:;e,' ',ff you 'look,·~t what:"'"
Wilson'~:ridn't actually 'live to 'see his die~m'fulf'il'led"because ,t;;e,'" .'
,
mfsIriaria'gecl'our' affc:iir'sithe ·united 'Sti:tt'es 'and 1:;:h'e ,world cl;1d after World
" War ",r. " But afte'r Wo:r:ld War II ; we didhave"the'Uriited' Nattons. And' fcn7
, 'all' .Of ~ts l,irriltat,tons andai:l'of i ts.pr(jb~eI)1s;; i t,'s play~d ':a major:""
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role, ,"1 .think,.',:ih ,l1.}ak',ing~h~ worl<;i a II1ore., ~eagef'rl 'al!d,:l'nore: humane
place. sometimes you' can be too far ahea,dof your, t~me.
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. ' / r think:th~ ·period',,'in., modern Ainericanhl'st:6ry most comparablieto, I
this is. probably'thep~riod 'right after"'wcirld >war.'ri';:bebause'at't:he" end
'of any era"peopie, are"called:'lJPor to.·sortoflook'"tOt~e,future~;, ,And,'
.. " y'etthere"s .?1 t.el)deITCy,t6 look .~nward;,'to· relax', ' to' just be. ,thankful·,'
, .' that ,the old order' ,:is .gone away wi t~O).1t; thiriking about what the. new'.
'. world must' ·lodk;:like.' , ' "
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"At.the.';end :of' World' War I,' we made".the wrong choice .. You 'know, .
,we .,wourld up' wi'th 'all' k'in'ds ,of problems', nb,t, only' :the, Depres':;;ion ami,
.world War II. 'and, all. '9f 't,hat,' 'but "just, a lot of-."::'. we':gavein ,to some'o'{
our.',darker ·impuises. ,So' at 'the, end. of, World War' I.'we', had the fi'rst/ big,'
·Red Sca~e", we had . the, first big:' -~ the Ku Klux :Klan .,w~s doing w~ll. " , "
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". " .., 'And ?tthe end of ,World War II ,T~tima;n .took 'a" ,t,errible bea~irig' ,~
.and didn I t· ge,t 'everything> done, 'hetr'ied";to dp. ·He ,heve:r dId pass, health' ,
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. care," for,exampl~,for al'lAmeri9an's~ . But h~e did' lay the! foui1dati-ons.
'fo'r.economicrecovery 'atl1ome and 'for a.: rnorla~"::' a': cC;>mmi'tI1.lent;· 'to,. more, "
'racial.equalit'Y·,anci; lfor' the: ins,titl!ti6ns'w~ich' ~'ed, t¢'tl;e'r~covery: of"·"
" Ellrope ,and,. Japan 'and ~thesystem wh~cp, perm~tted us ,.to· Wl.n the Cold War
Llltimat.·,~ly, .. ; , . '. .
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, . ...... But when 'V9u' re' chal:1enging people to ,make changes, changes that
, .; have a lqng-term future benefit.. agaiDst· entrenched' ,forces, you, have' to ,
, ...... '. "expect to' 'be. stoutly opposed; ofte.n 'misunderstood ,and' sometimes ", ,,', , . " .'
,defeated. "Yqu j~sthave t'a p:cceP,tfthat. '~'T,hqt's·.pad:ofht'stor'y:'.: ,Al"ld ..
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" , you have,t.oigovern in the'times:~,n which you li;re and'deal'with it: tn~
, .' best ,yO).1 .can ~
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And ,do you ever 'look ,;t~<?TrUmal)and 'what ',Trumari :went
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THE" PRESIDENT:' :Yes; beca'Use '1'm. f'rom Arkansas ,and Truman was
.'. 'fromM~ssour :i,~.ail~ bec'aus\e'a' lot of :,.th€!"pol~t'icai., peopi~' ,5'.f ~,y' ¥Puth,', ':, i
were b~g .Trumcln supporters ,...:.,., ,you, know our:, state. :voted ,for: h~'m ~n 1948'" ....
when a lot'.af, the South'abarid'onedhim '-',"'- I'Ve. always had an .aware·ness:.of,':
. T.ruman/s"i,e'gacy::,And: l)'e/'s always been one of 'my: four o·r':f.ivefa;\~ortte'"
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. '., But I th~nktha;t I, must, :say, I. was nev~r ~o aware of ,the. ':, .
", simll q rities. fit· our situatiot:l' untiL' I.act,uallYbedame President" and'I
realized' ',that' the sort.of deepa:inbi valence.the AIrie:tican~ p:eople have "n!=,w
,-~ waritin(,J'D.s.totak'e: charge and move f(:jrward 'into 'the"future','andstiJJl
.be .easily, d~ ver:t.~,d' becau$~()f, :thei:r:; 'deep'"7seated, suspicion$and:, concerns
q, abol:lt' governm~n:t:, ~an¢l. whether" there's. anyboqy.ln Wa'shi ngton. '. who ,c~n do,
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,And one pees,:, I suppo~e,( tha.t· h'is,tqry , do'ee;'. ina, sense, ,',
repeat itself 'when 'you look at "the 1920s;" an~the: Red:Scare~and the 'rise
in 'the Ku Klux' Klan 'and, lb6k',back,to"the mo!;,e ctu:r::n-o'6-:the-:ce'ntury,...· ':,';
',ylctor~an, McKi.n~ey's Anieric,a,Y?\l go, thrpughthat,.,:rsther:e'awaY'.to
,redirect'histo:ty,? ,ptdo ,you think'there ate just, generai c':ycles?, :',. '
There"s" a,'theory1that thE;! 'Amerlcan :pe'ople got.hr.ough"general historical
~ycles in their,' response' 'to,'chang~~ ,:' ""
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,THE PRESIDENT: "Y\es" they ,do ,but leaders and people can make 'a
di,ff~r7'rice fari<:l' 'P'?t J\i~t '-~h:e: :pres~dent."" ,b~t ,theot~lEi:r inst:i t~tions'~ ',', ''.. "
great Histl.tutl.ons of socl.ety,. ,Wha,tkind'oI: leaders a'~e'in Gongress?,,'
, ,'What dO"they do~nd sayi 'What, is the "rqle"'of ,the Ameripan; pre$s? "What,
" does i:t" 'do and'say? Does itf'eed,,:ont.he fears'and'cynicisrns, o,f',the'
" ,Amer,icai(people?,: 9r,d6e~ ,it::b~slically.p;r,oce,ed;in a.'ch~liehgingIi1odeto'
,\ do: better?,' ' "
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, " ",' , If you ,.look - thro].lghout ,the history of 'the coqn'try" 'you see that
'a, lot,'of thema.joi, actors in, the "Americari scene h,ave, played different,
',roles'at diff~rentti:tnes.,'And~history 'proceeds, in,cycies',tbsome:'
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,:,extent,·': but aJ,so,eve1;."y, time is difh~r;ent cilid'the outcome is riot,,'
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'foreordained,!' ' ImE;!an, 'it r~<Hly",d,oes make ,a differep'ce who,'s, there, and
wnat they do',.",
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mer:t±9ni,~~ ~tl:s~~'e~rI'ie~" ~hinking,~~9~t hi~fighti'
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t' qr t,h:e< ~eagueo.f·, N~tl.ons .',' ,Of course ,;;he haci' :suff ~r.ed \ a s:troke:, when\ ,the"
"vote c~me up In .1:J:1e,Se~ate; 'and; ,wa~,,~, little bit more remt;:)'ved'from, the
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. situatio,n.' H~al::?.solutelY,would; n~t ac~ept qny ;,cpmprom~ses whatsoev~r. ~,' '
l:Iis wife" :Senator Hitchcock, DemoGratic leadership came to him' 'and tried
.' "to',ac,c~pt 'some even,' !llinorc()mpfQmise"and;h~wouldn~t'. '(Arid;' :,of "course,)
""his dream . esseritially werit down the drain'l,
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"'And'~ahy,pe'~~ie fe~l,' of"course"J:the,ev~nts'leadi'n'g"up to ;Wdrld'\'
, 'W~r II might 'not' l1ave h'appened 'had there" been CI. LeaglleOf '-Na'tioDs in:
~lace. :Do yo~think ~~ I~m'not Cl.sking ~6u't6 fil1'tBose, sh6es,of, '
Woodrov,:, wilson, ' bUt, do you<thinJ<;: 'an exampie~i)ce tha't , 'that,'.," ;' r "
,inflexibility '~"":l1ave you look:eq e,v:er back 'to: pre,sidents' l'ike: iWiison or
others who have ,remained'so,infl/§,!xibl'e' that,nothing'of tp.eirs was
",pas;;sed,'.rione of the'ii'~ni:iatives:" " ,'" ,:'
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",', ,,' THE. ?RESiOEN'I:':' The, tri~k' ,'is,to-: be' 'fir~ bhy~ur 'princip'les' and'-{
'dlredt'ion and "t'9 'be 'flexible in dealing w,i th people who' :h~ve the 'power:'
t.p"eith~rhelpYou<furthE(r.that,di!ectioh or"9-erail ~'t:.'~' '1. mean,' Itt s: ,',
'int~r,esting';' compromise',,'is,'very' often 'gi yen a.i bad 'nam,e, in popular. '
,cIrcles, today~' Aild 'yet, oUi:' syst'em ,vias' set 'up'to'manda,te:"compromisein
'ways,that most goverri'mental'demoCracies arenJt..·
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I mean~ .we don~·t have a.,par,!iam~nt~rY system>:for examJf~._ '.So .
the president .' is .hot guara.riteed, even'':'':", ho:m:at1+:er hO'w .. llIuch .a llIaj ori l:.y
his',p'arty h(;ls ·in, Corigress; because .,there··is·po·.,parliqrnentary system', ,
tha~:is;, wh~re, 'thePresiden~t is :j:he:J,eader of the partylfi" Congres::;_
'And if·' they .want· to stay 'in ,the par,ty a'hd havepqsitioris,' ,them' they, have,
'to' vote'party line ~-there"~ always got to 'qe: c.ompromise .. ,
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o;ther day a:bl.ogr:-aphy of G,eorgeW?1shl.ngtoh _ " ,I
nev,er·kn~w:·this :..~' '1' guess; Jie·caine:to;t,h..e· p~esid~ncy wlth'.tll'eCgreatest .
amount of· leverage, :persOnal :'le;verage .arid prestige. of· a·nYbody· ih -history';
.' :"',;,;.and.·the congress;' th~. Senate rejectedo.ne.b:(his,Cabinet::homineesi.··.'···
,which.issomethil)g:I didn ' t know.. I, j'list:·: rea~this biograpllY that said
. that.' 'But :the point' is there is' ·ari "honbraple' Wqy to···.workthrough ' . :
.':- compromises;'
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'·You.: also hav'e ::to'know when not' to 'do ;'i t,' when mor.e harm. than' .
good' 'WOll'l,d' be. d,one··by. givilW' il). :to ,the obj~¢ti~e you,'re seeking then you"
, ca.n,·t ,do;.it,~·.Or sbmetimes:·yO\~.jyst~'dOrj,'t hav''e .t() doit:b,eca·us¢,y.bu',ve
,got. th~ votes" and 'you 'can 'prevail, . so you' can "g6 for. th.e :'very be.s't-, from .
.YO':lrpointof' view._ . But the whore, ~ssence 'of democracy l,is that peopJ,.e .
, .are given. limited p6we'r ,othersh,ave power,. y'o,u have ,to >work,together to
·gl?:t·s.ometh~hg done~. And ,the. idea 'is. that nobody' is .the:,"s:ole. repo.'sitory '.
"of. com'p I et'e wisdom;
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And,. you kno\\1,' ',we just: went Jtpro~gh ,this iriteiestincjl.exer'c.i~·~; in '
. ~heH~:)\~se·wi th.·the crime bi.!l..where, th~\ Republica,ns 1,'-:-thEf ~oderate.·
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'/Republicans-:-,-:- ~ere}villing to 'steE?ra' path; where they-moved a\iay, ;"from' ,
. >some' o~ their:more: strident"'leade'rs ,who didn/twantth~m, to do' anything'.'
. . t9"'com'proT(\~se'on ·.thecrime b.i11.!.' . A~<i they. b~o:ug.ht s<?meqf tpe DeTI,loprats
",with, th~m,andtheysaid, ·.well"look; le:t.'s see .how weC,a'il make this.'
'.' better ..fromopr poi!1t',ot view,:: ' . , , ,
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:, .And irol1;ically', ·.a :IO.t, 'of .the changes ,that' they were advocating',
':.! ,~ere th~.\'same th'ings.t~at I had advocated :when,th'e. bill went.. through the' '.' ':
. firs.t ·time:_. It carrie.out> bet>t-er'l S9.1 dqn ':t:think ·.anyone .looked '0!1 that
,.set· of' compromises a's; ,.dishonorable .. ' It' furthered .all .the basic< ..·' J:.: " ,
'obJ~crtlvesof the.: cr~me:bill'.a'nd·m6ie peopl;.e. felt,th,a::t they·)'had,llaa:a.··:
'sayi'r:r;t·:.!anci: that it c~'me d.utbetter.' soi'n·.th·e.world;we/r·e·.living ini.
in. s:Ortof.1instantarieoul'?, I).ewscoverag~ I ' snap, jU,dgments ,everypc;>dy: is' '
. 'looking for the', angle,' some.times·principle: compromise is more 'difficult
, . ,because" ithemin'lite'·Yo.ubeg,lri serioue;' nE7gottat.lons;. ,therethllssort ·of,~
, the sky is;fal1ing effect that· sometimes tak'es over~ the, reporting .9f· it
,:to. imply' ·that· something dishonorable is 'going on'. ,": " ....
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"'"be very strong 'at,out theJ1l, and,still::b'e: 'fle>c'ible ,enoug,h','to' (lc:t\l'a\ily make, '
progr~ss 'and, g,et "s~metp.ing'don.e.' "But i'n Qur constitution, , compromise,: 1s
" written ,in ',as'a virtue, 'no'E'a vice,.: ' 'l: \
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"When:'you' both ''l~::iok'':back 'on'~yo'uf 'eai-!'y, .Years," you' 'look',
, ba2:k' on you'r: :educat'ions as, Y,ery yqu'ngpeople ,'and t~en lcit'er as high
school and, colieg~ andi.,law stude'nts,',areth~r~ 'lnomemts ~ in history that
'pa'rticulcirly fascinated YQu? ,Are there individuitls', men or women. ',in'~
", A:nier.ican history who rP.ertiapsin '~ome'
~,e.r~ :inspirations' to' y<;:>u(,' '
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',because l'(;i. also',liketo-'askyou'both about the h'istoricalforces in "
:,<.iyou~.own'; lives ~that' helped,to,,:ch~m~ge yqur',persp~ctive arid, perhap'~:serVe,
as'inspi,ration.'
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beginnhrg of, 'the, civil r~ght,s mov~merlt, a:p SOl,lther,ners were still
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I mea~, r~aIly, it, ~as' amazing.'E~opler
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mounta'ins of north A'rkansas., whi.Gh.wa$.:the d'ividing' 'lirie'in' ,the ,war ~:'i:n.
'the\ west betweep:'the North,anp,the' Sout,h~ ,A':lot: of the "11111 p:eople. in''''
',the, South beca'meB-epllb'l idm,$ oecause th~y supported Abraham Ll:ncoln " ,
';they opposed secession,.. ahd. 'they ei th~r opposed slavery" o;r' didn't .care
,ap04t" it. ·It wash'.t part of'<th'efr life. "
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Lincoln; ,not only the , 'historic, sighif icance'6fw.\:lg,t' "he " dld~
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but what klnd .of ,person he.,was,and how.he was able, . under, enormous . , '.,
" .pressureandfrequEmt·:~rid~cule" (to,hol(;I, on to, :t:he s~mple, idea. that ,the '" '
.. Union ,had ,t'o; )e pr~servedi" C\lnd" ,t;hem:hcM he. was' abl'eto: move the': coun:try .
. , to'thepointwhere"h~ . could bre(lk: his most famous; campa':j.gn. promise,' ,
, ",\ which w:a~:, not' to' free the! slaves, ',and', instead issue t;he, Ema~cipa.ti6n., :,'
Proclamat'ion, which obviously set in, motion'the,pr6cess~swhich later'
,Il~d, to/t~,Ei }3t'h '" 14:t~;";and' ,l"~tll,,.amend,rnen~s,:· He,' ~a'S""fr9mthe~.time .of :,my, ,
,early cl1l1dhqosi, ',1 was, a,lways Just:capt+vated 'W,l th', ,what',. he "dld" how, ,he '..... '
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,had' family ho<;>ks
"that, traced their .genealogy, "bac}et6'the civii War,,'andthe'y,knew who . .',
. 'fOllghtfor' thleNQrt~" ,~ho f~tl,~f1t; :for. tl)e 'S0U~h: ':50".1, ,grew.' up' in',a' time,',
, v,rhenpeop,lewerethlnk:J,ng a'lot abou;t"the whole. ,lssue 'of race' ,because, .'
'civil~rightshadcoine in,;,'b'J,lt::still obse'ssed l1isto:ric;:ally, with"the ' . '
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.. I'the'South.~,
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',.'THE PRESJ.;DENT: NO;:I .. never did' that ~ 'But I r'eact,a:lot of books '
asa child'abbut'h.i;m.' And I'was a,l!so":',- i liked Jeffe,rson 'arlot',when'!I,'.' ,
was ,a,,; ch'iJdbecalise, lie-It ,-- in' fact, 'another' thing that,'Southerners
were ',oft;en:obsessed wi(thwasthe'pbverty 'o'f :the',South' at'tqe'end of:,the,
~ec<?n~w()rld War,a'rid"the ,:wh~leidea',ttiatth'7 \ only, ~ax a,tit cif ~t", >: "> .
lndlvldu,allyandcollect;lN~ly was' to qramatlcally: 'lncr~ase, theleyel of,'
, " edu,cation.'., An~: since'JeffersOn had 'fo~nd,~d theuni:versit:y., 'Of:,\rirginia', ' ,
. and hadadvocated,basi<:;ally 'free, public educatio~r" ',that Was something , " '" "
that I, , when" I ,'was Ivery 'young I ' cap,tiyated me.' So' he hada,bicj "hold, on my', '
, ' imaginatidnfrom' mY'childhqod , ' and I, 'read, 'a, ,lot"
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trip ',to', Florida ,wheI1,I \v,as probablynine,'I 'think. ", Ahd,wegot to' ,
,yincenneS'/IncUaha'; wh~ch'is verY,soJtherri.lhdianaand"che6kep.~lntb'a,:\ ' "
,ilttl~ motel thathadali,ttle' tinyt: v~".And 'weturn'ed' it, pn and for"
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abOli!t\aConfeqerate'soldi~r'.' f\ndI was jus;t astoni,shed tllCit anyb'od}'-.'
w6uld ha~eatelevi~ibn,~~ries'an wtiich the,heio'~aSia;Confedetata
~61dier.
'So 'mYI'whol~ experiEmc~,was so fqcus'ec;l ,0nLiricbln,as',a' savior . \,
o'f,',th~Union ~
And' then ,as we,trav~ied,: t'urther soutp, T remeinberbeJ.flg
in ,Alabama,. a,riq s"t;opping at, g<;'1s: s~tations : wh!2!r:~they, sold~C(::mfederate
flag's'and,;things'l,i:K:ethis', '"'And,,,t'his'wa$ ,in 'the ,middle:" late ,19'50s~'
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"dqring1:he' ,time; I ,was.;' a' ctiild .. : .So·. Linco'fn' 'ha'd·<a <very' pig ,p];ace. 'in. my .
'hi~tori<? 'iInaginatioD" 'I! And
had.' rio'" ide'aof: any 'of thethingstll'at.' ever'
,hapPE;!ned in tl1e South" .:( 'm~an, :" it was .j ust, anopeh anc;1shtit <?ase'that \'
" ,Abrah.am Lincoln. was" by ,far 'the greatest '·President because: he'pad ,:s,aved,
" . th'e Union arid he'.camefrom.I llino . . .: '
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','MRS. ,CLINTON: Well,. I grew ,up onIllinois,the .1an<l 'of'Lincoln; "
and . spent ,enormqus ainounts>Of' timeas"a ,ch~ldc:,stl:ldyi'ng,: j:.ilindi$' cinq , .
ATI1e~i'c'anhistorS' I reading'biographtes' that:,wereage:-:ap'propr:iate of., ' "
Lincoln;:m'akirig fietd trips:to Spr'irigf,ield ,ary.d ',other,p,la'cestliat,ha'd,'
s0l1leassdciatiori:wit:h Lincoln.),: ; ':.':' ,:\;,;"",., , , ' , "
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"WashingtOll.:' AnQ,again,it was' somebpdy' who: had a very large' pa'rt. in,o\lr "
, 'imaginatio:ns Ibeca~se ~6f the way; the sch'.ools treated: W<;!,shington., , I mean,'.
~very year. I, was, ,iIi. school; we, had skit p ,'about. Washington's lives; we, ,
, 'wr.ote' Iit'tle, bQoksabout Wa'shingtOD.i we'. celebrated Washington's birthday
.. ' Botti o{, thos'e t:wo';'presidentia'l bir:thdays, wer~how wespentFebi:-u?ry~
And' both of,themhad.a very strong appeal, as' the father of the ·country.
and ,the 'savior of t~e ~,couritry'~ to' ,me as' a little, 'gil?l ~,
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,') on .Washington' and\ a book 'called ~'Patriarch,", 'by ,)'1, think" '?'"Inq.,:r\ named '
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, is a person; i', 9reatly, ac;iin~r.e>and. I'm, Very' -~, 'ahdhe', s "wr:itten [a :book,
, calTed' "Leaders" now, 7-~'Cettqin Trumpets",' "",':"'something ,like·that'. 'And "
". th~n: he wrote that, book ~',Cincinn'?-tis'" (phonet:ic) on 'Washirig-t'on I '~tdch' T
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'what 'he refused. to' ct'o,: "in seeklrig.. ·~. third term and 'giving' up 'po~erahd',
overseeing: ,order ly' ~trari'si tipn ~ anq ;~ow he, kind;' 6i kept ttiin'gstogether i
, really , ~he was . ,
very, impor.tant to " this country,' . But 'I " .':t think as Ci,...'
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Hili'arymentio~ed aJ:>o;ut"seeing the t:.v~s:erie's. , T'he{ti,p side .'
was, true iri: .oui,'case.·I ,mean-, if you were 'a, 'S6uthernei, growing up,' you
hcid ·to be' a. blgadmirer., of, R6b~rt E.' Lee,,' and 'y.ou'had to kn'ow a lot "
,.,aboutRpbert E. ·Lee-.' T mean; yoU' jus:t,df,d" you know,?" . And .atl ofh'is
. '. qualities'; were something tl)at -"-, he was really sort,', of still ,a' fplk
';figure in : the: ,South ;,' .all. qurihg. the' 50s arid/~arly; 60s:.. "
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' 'An~d 'i t ,'Was', interesting ,because L',re'me~~~r' I ~as in a' minorit.Y,
',amo,ng ,young wh~tes. i, was in', all 'publi9school ir)b;~'grati9n. ,I thought
: Martin LutJ:1er" King was great" ,;ev~n ,wh.en' I "was, a ~kid,' :'vei:y, yOUl')g.: But:, :to' :
me, it was all part of, thenat.l.1ral, flow,'of his'tory.' :1. rnea'n,'Inever< '
thC)\lght', whether t-tlere' was,' a c::o'ntradicti:on,between',adm'1ring Robert E. 'Lee
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, ,THE P;RESIDENT: ,r ~,l).:', teil' 'yoti' one 'iittl~ sto,ry ,to give you and
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l,i t:t+/~ cOunt,ies 'tried' tc? secede from ;'Aikansa~whenArkansas: voted to '
" secep.ef,roin, the,UDHm; The people were,split ,right down the, middle. And;
'"',,T'remem~et, Jri:'1975" maybe, ,or:'7f/"something like' tl1at,'IwaSup"in ont:'
:bftl)ese' ,be;auti~ul:ii ttl~:mouptaintO'Wp,s~~gi v;ing ,t:hehigr:r',scho~l , :' .', :
, ,~comriieric~ment' address', on 9., g'9rgeous, ;:rune nigh't, and, the Ozark mountains',
,were preatht'aking .,The ~ky'. wa's clear., ,cihd,Iwas exhortipg these, ki'ds to
overcome, adversity ,an~ I 'wa~<teliing 'them' about,allthe,t:er,rible ,ttlings "
Lincoln had been:thro~gh in' his, life. ,,:And·after\ it: was' over,: alT~the .
'. ,'guys' who",ran, the ,c'ounty 'for/me'; 'ail. these great hiii,:country guys., tqok "
. ,me:out., and '/we',~ we1:,'elooking 'at' the"rriountai,ns,.; A,ndthey :sa,id~: ; that. "was a, '
very' goods'peech'" '~nd~yol.l '~can gil ve it: down, in 'Li ttl~ Rock ,any'" time/',bqt
'~0!1' t :you 'eyer ,'comE§ up \he:r;e~~d brag ,on th~t Replj:bloican pre's,ldent, a~ain;',
,'l:f he' d been,th~t,' go<;>d a Pre~1dent,,' w,~' woul,d' h.~ve ,never 'h:,ad the '~CJ. vJ.;I.
War .. '(L,aughter'.,),,,
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,Th,at" was. very much, part .of ,the: herita,ge., of ' ,the cultu:r;:e.'
. 'It.' s, inter.esting, to' he?r yo~' l:loth also, ,::.;peqJ~ abbut,;in: sch901 ~ ,R,obert,E';
,..' ..Lee,,,~Li~qoln~~ George'Washingtqn'and ;Abniham",Lincolnj' 'the,pagean1:?s"'i'n' "
Fe.br,uary; . ,which' I: remember; "I, wa::;'borri,in."59. '" ~.. " , ' " , ' ., ':
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, But education ...:.-..: a' lot of~ .American liistdryhas sqrt" 'Of shi,fteq, ,
~" ; ',:in recemt ,year, ~maybe; ,I' think" to',more ,o'f a: bala:nce"where, wei,ve looked' ,
" "a,t' social, h!j,story~, 'we',ve loOked at 'the. history,: of theeyeryda'y: Americari~ ,
And,: perhaps ,'fp some ctim~,,' 'il1 ,s6me, way debunked or 'taken -doWI')fl'."notch, or: '
two, ,'the,', her,oes"that we'had',:,:",th9se9f,us whog'rew.up :wit,p.,asense, b,f
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're6entl~ recqrd~~~~~ ~~y in~thelast.16~
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A , . MRS.':¢L1NTON::" I~o .. 'And:1 it,hink'it i s,C\'great'i6ss.f"9r';'·
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trends ()r even ila,rge $fro,ups, of ,people ,who p:!mai.n ordina:r;y ,and' fa¢~less ,:
, ': ih the~xperiencetha,~ 'you ha'(e w~th,.them;
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ptilH:d ,out othei:', heroes ."',1 ,.mean, I think it is' impo'r'taht: ,that people'
knqw"~boutsojourne:'r. Truth aDd : not' :j,ustth'e 'white me'n'th'atwere"
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a'Ya'ilable as heroes when wew~re, muc,h younge'r>
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Blit ':rth~nJ:r ~t~ s a shame that ,we, los~,s~ght,;of the' heroic,. '"
qualities ,of'thosepeoplE! w:ho ha:ve\mad~ majpr:,';:impacts' ori,oii}:", history;,
ahd that we don't. use, them, more ,as' eX,amples and' symbols for. children. ,',
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. : ,at the'>ige ,of .~~; ',I 'wasshock,ed'by. "And, I rel'\1~mber'.' 90ing ,to; ,see my '-"""
'.' English ,teacher and·. saying , T ,.just, can' t b~'lieve, it.' I '.,fel.t like:I nad
. been di'sillu~ionec;l ,.a:bp.tit Berji:unin' Fr,anklin·~ :, Imp' .1' ll,n,ever~' forget h~m '
" , ',saying, biltwhy would 'you be disillusioned? He, wifsa (great' 'man ;'. he ',', '
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'human,ity 'but', them admire them sv-en more 'beci3use. o:f what: they .were able';
'to' a9-complish ,historically.
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And that. was ,one o'i,those':li ttfeles~ohs tl:).a't yqu 'go 'through. as '..
a" persohwhb c~res,a;hout h:i'story an9, ke~ps," enchl.mtering new; infdrm~t:fon'.
about \,peop+e as: you' go through 1.1 f e:-: :'" ,.~'
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,sdmething~ of' a 'i,etu:r;n·tq,. the. emp~a,sis'on
individua.ls , with' a"'·broader ra,nge of' 'fridi viduals,;" wi thchilqren 'bein<i, ,
,'able '-to ,se€!'amuch,more ,diverse and r'ep~~sent,ative 9roupirig'~ of Amel;"icans .-'
.who, 'Inade their::cont;ributions, put .rec6gn~i~i!lg"tha:t, there,.are 'cerb:iill ,:, ' .'
. people.' who' stal)d abpve the' others becau:se. of the ii', ·role.'~in,: Amer iC<;in :'.
history;: and'giying those 'people :the' attention again'.th,at.L 'thit;lKi they
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, ,Washingt,on cut dOWI) , a cherry tree and said ,then he couldn ',t teHl, a' lie.',
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But .,there t s a )essonl:.n, tha't;,and .tha.t 'less,on l.S' one of, the 'ways you· '.'
' i / cqrivey values 'to .'childiEm.':An~,y6u do, ,it'inthE:: dorrt::E::xt'cif
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" f':i9u,re,whq" i,s ~n:',his :6wngteat,',and' you use, it as a teaching, examp~e.' '.,
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Ahd I think that a lot ,of' that'· has been r, lost,.
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,whet~~rthE::Y're always .beingl'take6 dpwn,: "
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: W " , tr,e,ated iry an outrageous and 'vitcious way' wh~ry ,he was', prles'ident . , \ " .
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R6b::;ev~~t'had .:a~~asonfbly' r6ugh,t~;m~'~ut,:ri:ot too :l?ad. '. 1fnC:rt,ic~d t~ere:
y/a::;; '~ -]ournall.st th'~t wrote ,anartl.cle .'l.n the N,ewRl;!pul;>~l;C, I' thl.nk
" she ',s qbout" 8 0 years old" put ,sn,e, covereqt:h'e , Roo,seve It's.' She said, that'
, Frankl'in 'and' ',Eleanor ',would n6th'av~' done so weil 'ff they would'have: hact ,',
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to" de'~l with' all :,the 'shiff that's present today. . And, slfe' w a s "
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.fdur.~'and' was' a' great figl:lre' i,n. 'my Tife until ,he,:died ,when I was quite ,
young --,he jus't, 'loved, Roosevelt ,because' he symbolized to h~m that' the',
g,over>nment, cif, .the'United ,States /ca,r:ed: about ord'inaty', people:> like him and'
wou'ld, ,try :t6help"them. :
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'of Which. is,' very 'hel'pful., 'One: is' :,tha't' ,government is evil ,and " ,,', ' ' " ,
"incompet~nt 'and,alwaysmessei5 'llP,.'Yl,ell, ,'th'eNational, nsti tute' <;if
'. , 'Health ~ the ,Na'tional ~P'ark s'erv.l.ce,s, ' the" Socia 1 S'ecur i ty, ': Medicare are, '
\ ',> ev)AEm~e' \ha~':tha~ish~t 'ne'cessarily~rue, ,r,ight?"
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, ' solve' ail ;peopl'e' sproblems.' , Well, ~,if yo'u~ look'at the bre'a~do~n of 'the
,,':~6~ial. f'ab;rH::"ir Ameticain'the,iast' ]'0 year~, it'is ,obv:ibus t!1,atrio' , ,,"
,gbv~r:nmentpr6gram, can'~i,x( all that,~),.',"
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'" , .~he pe9ple' -- wheh the ;t.me111p~'oymeflt ~ate'in "the:', country was 25'p~rc~nt "
, and., per capita' income~: in ,'a 'lot. 6fthe places', in' the '~outh:was' (jn'e~half
,', ',the'natio;nal 'average.My';grandf~therwas, ~"person' _:;i~ I Oonit guess ,he
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Ck:,t0~,~o'i:t ,..:- 'he 'never"did:,take vacations.,
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evenwhenhe~lreadY'ha&,~'grand~hild,
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'thought' thathisl,'pre'sJdentanci~is '.col.mtrycared ab6ut;,)iim aiJd' his' sma).'!
" " existemce 'in, a srnall't,own, .i,n,Arka1)s:as" when ,.qe wa,sslaving away doing, the,
.. ,best he 'couid ,for, his family~ ; There'l:? 'a very ,im'portant.,lfnkage ~ j:lnd
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" it I S ,something,' that we need ,to 'be ab;teto ,re'establ ish tbday" ,t.o som'e":'
"exte'ttt ~ , under-\ t'\,conditi'ons'. "whEfre'lt ,i~fa:r" mo:t~, . 'diff icul.t '
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..at. the, very-l,east'inspired'and directed the'.'.
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,;,Of'course,:we,khowthe,grea.t.' cl'ip.-'-·the, picture of. you right:
here: ,~n ,th~ 'Rose~a.rdE:!"n i) ,meeti,rfg:pref?idEHlt:keflnedy~' .'.' /r . was , ,worider lng' :if ,
'you' could,ta'l;k aJ,~:ttle,blt, aJ:;),Qu:t t.h?t·di:tY" andwhat;.'ypu ,~er:efeel~ng,ana .
, . coljing, h~re, froll1 :~rkansas;,~td,' the.Whi te" JloB:se' ?l:':ld, on t~e" ,W~i te' H<;>llSe .;~'awri."
'and'J;riee,ting' ,John, F;~Kennedy.,' AJ)'d what did you feer' inside ,of 'you as y'6u '
''-werelea'Ving,',tnegate?, What' did\'c)\l'tel'l~y:our.self?
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" ,,' ' ,'THEPRESI,DENT,: Well, I don't know what I, told myself when 'I was '
'leaving ,the g~lte,.· .' I' just..:.,;;. .tn~re",·we're' a hu~dred.. of, us 'here .and' we we:r:e'
'; 'ha,ving a:.big'time .. ~. But. I.reI\lem:bei very distinctly, where I "was' 'stari¢ling, ,\
outth~re' and .:wha't' I :dfd',.: because the.fei'low .weelected preside'nt of '
BqYf?Nation gaYEr h:inr,~,... 'th~Y':didwhCltthey' .alW?y;; 40 ,; --they.'.gavehi~ a
t-:-shirt:"a,nq somethirigelsE? ,and'l:ie:gave 'his ;L it:t:letalkj.:And~t,heri· 'he':
".just came, 'downintpe'crowd .artd·be.st;Cirted sh~kirig."han,q.s and I was,i
. ,af'ra,id he,wQuld"just ,shal:C~:·9ne.or'::twohands,~rid;'quit'., And' +",was at the
~ead of, th'e 'alphabet' anyw-a'y, . and I was bigger than, anybody around me so"
(I just mad~ 'sure' I was .there so I 'got, 'to shake harids, with him.
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~bout' my·genetatipn. :, You 'i.know, he w'als a .very,' future~brie~ted per~on.'
.~:' "lie said h~w:oU:ldget·· t,he(count':i::'Y :mov'.:j.jng 'again.c.T. had ·,thefeeJ.,:ing·that: '
we' were'. going'to,ha:ve:·'(;l'good future' .bec(;lu'se·;h'~. was'. seeking· aJ,l these· new
',6::dntl~rs~ . And :he' 'ga've ,u's.?:'. seps~ of PQssibilit.ythat/w~C:ould .deal ' ,
"; '.~: with! things ... , And.he,.finalilybeganto:dea'lwith. the. 'civil rights,'issue;;
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.' int.h~ s.om~what more. open'wa}ithan I?resid'entEisenho~er)lad. :AJ.;thoU'gh·"
: ',' , ,p~esid~nt Eisen~ow~r. sentc·the'.tr.09PS·.t6jjn'tegr<TteLi~tleR6ck.C~ntra~ ' .. , "
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Hl.'gh:School, .whl.Ch. I "strong,ly' supporcted . .' Ithpugl:tt.l, t ; W~!5 ·a. good thl.ng.. "
·And, I was .in a:' decided , . 1 .
I .was wha.t;' 11 or somethi1rig at:the time..
minority in: ;high "schooi~bu,tIth6ughti:t -was geod'.' ",
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• , harrqwe"st .o'f victOries) 'showing how, ,~.::.., if you ','look at' Tt-.~sh6wing. t'lle
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"we :w~nt th:rqugh"aii,t<his.un<sett:l~ng:stuf{:":And ,he' settJed the:countrY,.
, ,\".d<<;:i~n, .ahd he, gaveth'e'Beqpl'e'afairly, high ley~l.of,confidencE!~ .a,nd hE!,,:'"
was 'wilJ.,ing 't6ile t,' soine things ,;happen,~' ", And, so',! t~ink ,tpat"history,will~
j\1dge, him prettykincny~". ~ ", : , , '
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sa~l we 'want it;;'we~.rE; 'for ',it in general" 'lj,ut, ,we-'re>against1.t;,in
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these ,kl.ds, 'and he, seemed to~elate well' to', young ,peopl~'~' And J:t, made a
, " ' big' impr~ss.ion on people my a:gethat, the,"Kerinedy ,admiil'istratidn, ·,thiat: '
, the Pres iden~', ,and th~ peopletp.'at;were ,w6r~i,n'gfor'~im,' were tryirigto,,'
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'you, ca~Ei' :'back",h~me after
that, exper,ience,.. she kney{ that Y9U were going to go into 's,ome' form, of,
, public', service:, She could just!, tell. " ,
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, , T H E , PRESIDENTiwel.I,'\vhat,Id,ecid:ed, :"''''',a<::tuaiiY'it: was befo~e'I
I; waEi a junior in ,high' school.'
: andhqd, been inter~stediit be,1ng a,\physician.",I:h.:tdbe~n" interested if\"
, 'being a, music,ian :and a' ,couple cioth,elf tpings .. And :I ,just made a,',
,'decis'ion 'that :1: Mould try ,to' go ':intopbbl',iq :servicl?,b~cause, 'I"thought
i,I'd' be,:gpo~,:at;it,!an'd I ,thought: it,would'-be"irttereEit.ing.r.,. thou'ght: ,it:,'
,w,ould "be ~~dmething that T,~d'I1ever: i1ave:to ''o/prry.apout getting, u'p. att<l:
, going ,~ow9rK~.~very day' because it ,W(?li,14 ,;alw<;lYs ',b,e 'something' 'diffe:t"'e~t. "
,I' was" ,l.nterested ',in ,people and ,human, natur-ean<l the' dimenpions 0(: the '
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" when y'ou"rea, ~id 'is wrong, ,"but' ~'t:Qatwas~one' insight '.1 had when',I- was'16
, I, was' right "abo~t'. ',mean ,th~t i t,~"
~ a faEicinating' lif~ in' its','" "
,di vers,itYi:ind,ctia,llenge,. : It, 'can be a pa in {,r'om"ti I1l'E! ,to time /- ~ut ,'it 's
, still fasc,iiiating., ''',
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ca~e:"up'here;Tre~ember~w:~ry 'clearly~',
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",' ,Mrs. '-C;llnton, I ~nC?w'~that'as :a' youth' you h:ad 'met' Martin,: ,
:' : Luther Kihg,. 'And, theri';J: know 'that '~n 1968 ,during the, DemoC,ratic" ,,; ',,'
:Conve'ntion ,fnchicago'> you wentdowh, ~it:h a' friend t'o' look'at' s.ome: of'
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you're thefirst,presid~ntial,couple pornafte;r that"long period
, ": 'of ,time, when: so ~ahy.people':, j),lS~ 'knew' Ro'oseVelt" <;tsthe'ir Pr;esident; : 'but'" "
:,th<;ttMrs:R06sev~1,t 'lived', or c:ourEi'e,:uritl119'62., Arid I){now"y6u'were
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'active in 'school gover'nment -and so forth.' ,'I ,don' t know ,if' she' was 'a
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_ .l.I'}spl.ratl.ol) at '.that' . pOl.nt, but how about that, . ,
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~eet'ln'g Martl.n ~uthe:u Kl.ng :::-:'- ,s'l.ml.lar to ,the pre!'iaden~ ~ s exper:l:ence' l.n
meeting, Presi'dent; Kennedy?,'
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MRS,~'C'L'IN1'ON;:, ,~~,il" I'caIne :f~om a:v:ery 'd'iff.~r.~nt'point 6f'v·i~w'.,
... 'I came. iroma, very ,;R~publ~can farn.~ly. t:hatYlq\s:'l)9t J;>~rt'icula;rly fon9' of.
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,BU:'t ~tarting".wh'e:ri I'was.,:in':,high schooL I had', ~ ~eries 'of
experie-nces that.at leaE;t began to.. pose diff'erent' vror1d views a's ,
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possible" ideas'fot m~ ·to.. c6nsider~ .·'And; my,' :involvement with. ,my phurch, ,
:'which,led to'mY,going,to','a\.speech th<;lt 'Martin, Luther King:"'gave, was 6ne '"
of· ,thpse real \ e'ye;'opening' exp'eriences. ,:And I was ver.y.,impressed by him.'
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great ,disappoir1?-meryt ,beqause,'all of tl)e e:x;cit~ment ,about~change ,that'
"seemed to.' 'sweep the, country, . at 'least where' I grew 'up; were" viewed a,s "
,quite, threatening :;',..:, '~hich :giyes ltie '~6m~ins,ightas .to, how'people;' fe~1
to¢lay' when',theY',view'much pfwhat. this ipresident" ,is ,trying~',t'od'o, '"
becaus~"I c~m!=;ftom th!='k~nd 6f family that,w~~~et~skeptica~ab6ut·:
government doing' anything right ,and about" the spec;:ificsof 'change as' the
President wa9 just, talking abput.
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,fheRoQsevelts and ,not ',particular-l,y 'f:o~d'of theK~nnedys,re'ally were,
9tr6ng' suppor.t~rsof, ,Preside'lit' Eisenh"ow!=r, "and Vice Pres'ident Nixon~i
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wha:t.Y6~' could, view as ,the'Kennedy,:aqm~J1istrat'ion,'s ,a,genda~ "B~t I was, \
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very sympath~tic ,and, supportive ,Of civ'il·rights., . I mean, I. cari 'remember'
;: watching' 'and having, my: rilother',:explairy, wha ~," happ~ried 'When Pres,ident,.' '
· ,E;H:;en1)ower' sent"trOqps ,t.o ,Little Rock.\'I mean; I"tho,ught ~twas Ijust
, rid~culClusthat, p~oplewouldn ri;:. ,9.0 ,to school, with'differ~nt,' kinds of'
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' :' bey"ond." poli tics~
I mean,' it, shpuldn't"be Republican or~ 'Dem.ocrat or,
coriserv~tiv~ or Repul:>lJ,cp:tl;' ,it was just, t,he<right'thing, to,do ~""muchc;f:
, t,hat ,because of /i!ly strong, f,eelirigs, about Li"nqoll1;and' iny family's', ,
feelings' abov.t,<what, being 'a~epublicar really me,an:t. ,So' that was an ", '
imp,ortantpart of my:'sense .of: political' identity, asit began to dev'elop .
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,But'in' i964~ 'I~WaS:,a'''very :strbng '"supporter" 'of , Barr;y Goldwater. ,;'
" . Again,' because:' r:,lik~d what., I, s~w ~~,ni:5i rea,l' ,conservatism. I" ineai1~ T',
',' ..reap:y ,}:l~dcomef,rom a back<gr91,ipd', that was :highly suspiciouq of'·
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, goy'ernment',' l?u;t" alsO vlrry, suppor~iVe, <;if the inqividua,land individual"
r'esponsibility;' and Goldwat~r, seemed ~to,.star.id ,for that.., ,And ,f: gO,t 'to
'meet,Barry Goldwater.. ,r, :went-,toa ',rally: and m'et:him'and,enjoyed ~"just"
l:>eiri'g,'~nt~,Q~U~e9 ,to)1im." ,Th~t~,s'ar'l that ~c,curre4~,
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",:; '~ut:' ']: a'lsc)' reme;mber in 1965 beihg :as impr:essed ~.a~ :I,think ,r I'V'e'
',eve:r' been 'by a, president'lal speech when Presldent Johnson gave hlS' .
:speech Oil',' the 'voting Rights Ac~., . ',:r th<?ugh that" was o~~ of the mos,t'
extj;"aordin'arypublic sta,t:ement,s thadev:~r seen' a Pt'eside,nt,givei ,"and'
fl;",om, thp.t~, time ,on bec;:~me vkry 's9Pportive'o,f: a lot, o,f,the'g~a~s, of:;the ,
yohnsonadministration domesticFlII.y,,:,e~en though"ov~rtilll,e,I ,bec,ame v~ry
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· label~ng/ b~~ause,I tl)i~k: we .'al1e',al'l,mu<?h mOre coinp~ex. in, our' pO,litic~·l·,.
" . thougl;1t's . than the'. easy categor~es ·descrlbed.·'
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When, ,w.e, also .talk 'about' ,Eleanor and. Franklin .'Roosevelt
.as ,'you,mehtioned' before,""Mr. ~resident /?thinkinga~but ...the 'Rbosevelts.,
and some' of .the thirigsheywertthrqu,gh~ .' Npw ~.o~, cQl;l17se,.that. was 'a', , ~ .
.very . unique situ.at:ion·, -- the"GrE~at Depression,world,War'I':t'~ he was' . . .
physic~lly .:incapacltqted.with poli0l.· he ran, for ·.12'. years, 'pomimmicat~oris.·
, ~as so differen~;-- ~ut there.~a~ ~~reat whirlwi~d:6f' chan~e with the
· New 'Deal and much resistance t o i t as ;welL '. In some ·of the ba·ttles' that
y'ou I,ve' 'been "through
,"... ,. the last". .year ,.and.fa halfl:--', congressional'" battles,
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; and some . of the ,Cr.ltlclsm, .,...,.. ,do.. you ever ;J.oolr back· at· the Roosevelts?
':' "" And. do .Ypu .~v.er,tp·ke •inspirjat{on' :t:ro'~ 't~em .a's,they· 'worked. together "ori'
·:the·'NewDeal?····
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. . Of.cou'rse,; Mrs; . Roosevelt took certain: 9o~ponEmts of.'·,t,heN'ew
· Deal ,that:;.,were c,E?ntn3.1 "to' .t}1e 'R06~evelt;d?ITtest:i,.c ag,enda:,.ahd <the ,.
.
Prestd~nt oversaw'the whole pictUre, .~and\ i~s.ome. ways' perhaps 'parallels'
the ,way· you nave bpth worked,tqgetherl' for :ctlan.ge"~,. . " :, . '.. ":, ',',' .
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, T H E PRE~IDENT:' :Yes,:'I thinktherear~' pi:l1;'pl:l~i~.\:I,thin·k the'"
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'. ,difference. 'is obv'iouslythat: peoplekne,wtheywere-: in rriore.'desperate '.;'
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'straits, back ,tl~eri.:people",wantch~ng~s made/noW, blittheY'reless .... , .
. :w i l: ling for the government·. -Co db so much,' wh ich ,I t;.h ink: is. q good thing.
That d.s, a'f;te!rall, wha't_~ ran on'T-- ;sort, 6f'·try,ihgto find :a way-to' -':
strike a ',new baUm~~"be:tween the government .arid the priyate . se.c:tdr,:n·ot'·
;
just' to 'have t·he· goverrllllent' solveth,eseproblell1s. .
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.The. only:thing ,~hatI f. ind ,'frus}:rat;ing tod~y is that· sev¢ral', ':.'
surveys hav,e"show!;Lcjf/r~cent ,pol,itical ,his,tory '.that, l~st: year· we .had' ~"
gr,eater s~c,¢.ess ,in .. pushi,ng,changes thr9iigh congr;ess' .than any. Presiden~ .
since.'theend.:ofWorld W·arr'I,except:.forEisenhower,: in '.53, who·.had a',
· mo.r;~, If~i ted: age I1 da,· and. Johnspn ;in'" 6':?" .who··.·had'a.·more,. sup·portlve·-:·.·.',:
cb~gress .. :.And., th~, Am~ric.an' people '<;lo'n i t know ,·that·~".
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Eh'e'~ d~me~sions'~f~hecha'rige
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,trying to effect' arid,~hefact;that ;we 'have a.good· wc)]:ikirig relatiotu::;hlp':.,.. .
·.... and a lo.t' of. other Presidents,did~' "t;.oq, by'theway:, Bess,.Truman wa$ ,
"Ve'ry itifiuential, arid Mrs .' Wilson was' 'actually' virtuallyrunriirlC:j the .'
.
,countrywhem Wood'row, Wilson wa's :j.mp,aired:': l3utwe"ve be,en, inore'upfront,:
i·
',abc)Ut'our relatio.l1 ship 'and 'our .partnership than anyb'ody", I: think, ~lnce '
,,:,' Frank'l,in and~ Eleanor, Roosevelt~,So.dOi~I :,take'thatto heart.:. .
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people thrqugpcm .env1rO;nment, a:'rep,or,1::,l:ng I.?- press env1ronment, i:hat . 1S
more negatiye' a.nd mO,:t;"e editorial iand"sometimes' less accurate. ,r· .mean" '.'
those aren't. iny'c0nclusl0ns; tho,se ,are'. cdnGlus:j:ons ,that' pav'e be,en·'
.:.repeatedlY drawn by independent, 's.tudents'>,of ·,t'his who "don't have an' axe
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. ' T h a t l s ,What;mak~S itso:.h!ar'q beCatls,e whe~ Yo~~'re :doing' what'.'·.: ,.; ,
people hired yoil .. to do', and when 'you / r_e making changes and ,they still
¢lon/t:know, it, and' yoli'.re not',sure"you>hav~ a.way:'1;::o!make SU17E;!·'. they. find
" out",.that.is·'a, troubling .. thing .. Ari~'I.'d.saYthat)s. the'blggest:new ", ' "
· challEmge.,ofgovern:.lng" and it really, r~wards, those'wh0d6~ / t want to'
,.change·. . Basica;Ll:Y' this kind' of ,.environment is good for the ,status quo,
.. ' be,eause ,there 'S;' n,o premimu ,:there' Sf ry.6 pena1t:Y t,o ,be 'paidfclri ", ", ,.', '.
. ,',iLrespons~p~"litY" . You, jUptsay~ well"ypu,dpn't ,l'ike this, ,you dori't
; : " like'that·,' you ,¢ion '·tU,:ke·the· other thing.' "Arid' ,people, 'are,' so skeptical
. and tpey doh' t. kn,owwha t '. s going ,on ,that . they 're prepared,' they", re, ".
. '" predisposed 't~ believe:. whatever .,bad, t~irig <they, hecir so'·that: inak~s .it ,
even.ri\ore di·tf ioul t J' '~9 I' th:,~nk 'in~ha't:se'nse, 1;:he" en.v iron!lleilt i~ ,more
'challenging.;
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.. ' :;'"Bu;t:J t;:h~re'.aretime~.'in ,the pas;twhen'it .nas,l?een., sQ~ Jeft'erson
· faced- a very .hostile. envirohme.nt 'in aC'Iiarrower sense;; And Truman in a
· tota,ilY· .diff~re'nt way'. did J. :50,. these' are'''''',L, tHat"swhy .·there"~~ 'no, .,.:~.
:' 'hist0l7i cal :period orchara'¢ter's' that'are,exad:ly par.all~l.
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',And. you· also~ have. 'a pi:-~ess ...;-' I ,being:'a' 'f'reelance, member '
of ,it;';:-: .,who. is inotalway's pi::rrticularly w'el~- i,nformed, in history: and'
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v.ery freque'ntly ,make',statements that "ar~inac9urate,.;
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" ',' 'MRS~,CLIN.TON: That's one of,the. things tl1at.. has peen very
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irrteresf~ng' to me~s~,:p<:trticulailywith, respect, to the 'Roosevel ts~' i' .
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had always 'adnfired',the accomplishme'ntsof.Mrs,;. RooseveJ,t, ,',and, I had
" r~memb,ered her fr<?m' her days" at the.'Uriited):~ati6ns,and partic'u,larly ·th'e '
, •. 1960 conven,bion .with.... therol,e.. that. sh:e played there ~ ,~:"
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, . 'sc, I aiway~khew ~ that: ,she'w~;fs' '<iI' rem~rkable and 'ac~ompiished
" , person.; .,'. ,B'ut until 1< re?lliy'began,'reading'a lot /~bou't her.~nd by:,her, '. r
: did not. ;fully' grasp Yfpat: s:qe was .up iagai'nst / ,bot,p, in t~rms of:, her '. "','
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:indiVidual, obstacles ,that had ,to be ,over<::ome .:in order-to ,.establish her .
. o'wn identity'" as a' :partner' 'in political, .chang~:i buti:tlso~the' , . ' , I '
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institut~0n91':9bstac':Le~ ,thfit. sh,e '~corifrQnte9~, .'And. t:h'e,mor,e that I have
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'read, about an¢l by her ,'.the greater-my qdmiration' has grown. because she
': ',' truly: was not .only. ,th:e fi:rst ·of. her' kind;' ,bu't proQEt1::>lyJ.orie:'.of, a 1<ind in.
. .. , :the. way. she approa¢h~9 herrespons'ibi1ities after, \ her hUsband was,,'
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str:icken w.1:th polio;' andhov:.:'shewo~ked s6hard' t60ver~bme 'all'k~inds'of
",personal restraints ,?uch' a's" he"r ~l1Yni?ss.,and: her; ICtck,of' pubIiC'speakfng
,,' . ' and all of those ~ffortS"that cs,Q.e ,put into "making herself, an effec:;::tiye'
'" ?pokesperson:for what, she believed; 'and t:.l1en'facing "the: ,ridicule" on'· a '
, persohar' level as viell, ~sa) I>o,l:j.dy, lev~l a's' 'to what ,'shE;! be'lievedand how
. " ~he' purs'7e'(;i'l1er~e~irafs 'and ):.herole, she' pI_aye,d ~i1d 011, and on;, 'I "have
'Just been, so admIr,l~g.
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,Roosevelt In~.titute ,which I d.j.d~' And ,I Iveneve'r, had: a ch:ance·'
'personaily to visit'"Hyde"'park, or' Va'ik,Hill '(phonet'ic>:, but I\" wasabie' to
;'keepup to ,date,'with, a "lot: oLthe :'publ,icatioris'..' , ' , ' ; ' ,
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.,.,': ". , 'Arid, what":le are "stilL finding', put about how~Mrs., Roosevelt ,,'
,,' , i.nfluenced what went .on;' and h9w she" stood,up a9ail)st~ her: prltics,,'I .
"'.' '~hink sh'ouldbe, muqh "more' 'br'o?dl~{-known. ,',Aryd you,have',done ,a good job,
: 'irl tttyii1,g to settne, historical r¢c9rd straight'i bi?:th':abbut'Mr,s,; ',~' "
Roosevelt ,~nd otherS;: '~ho 'have; be,en tiere.
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'It nnist 'al'sq>b,e vei:y, frustrating :,wh~n -',- (,GAP' J;N TAPE) ~
. ,and,: you sori'let:imes "s'ee"'aIl expr~sston 'you' ve,,'used'sometirneis ":-lightning
, rod. ,-'...., when you . s.ee~m'ages~~6r caricatures\'that; are; who,llYinad'curatEi." '
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"T:~EPR~Sl:PENT:Op·YleS;II:'watc.~:,'the'~~.ws· ,som~t~mes' brreild'<1' '.,'.
paper and,. I 'thlnk·-;,;,:,ttley'd,say,some't;hlng aboutli\e,and.I say,. well,"I·,
wouldn,' t:, b~foi' th~t guy.' eithrar,. \ (Laughter;>, You' know\wh~t I mean? ,"
. ' , ','You 'f~el' like' you,' re. s'o;rt. of. a.bardboarcf ClJ,tout~. a, cartoon.'character,. .
. , " . , But it"s part of· tpe1challe.nge,· of the till\~inwhichwe, l:ive~ It/,S: just., -:,' .
. ·...;,.',it',requires' a ,whole',differe'nt"set .'ofstrategies,for trying to get . '.
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. ' Let<~e~skyou,"are.: ther$,any' particulal:i objects,' ':any
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,particuiar"portraits .in,the wtlit,e House,,';al1Y;' p~rtlcu;t.ar ,rooms, that ,have
come ·to<mean . s,ometh1:hg,pa'rticularly specia:l qr~. il1).porta!it to bot.h., of> you?
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. . , " ,, -MRS'.CLIN~ON: ,Oh,:th~r~:'s;·~oirJany.:' - ,Oheof th~, '
b.~$t parts about
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'. living her~' i,s ,feeling;that ,~ver.y day, you encounter' C;lnother, piece ,of
.
'" Ameri'canhistory!.· .' Andi wnen.:we fir-st' ,'e'ame,' ',we j'ust' searched' every' nook _'
" '>and, cranny to ,find,memoi::abilia,anCi portraits and, other things that we '
:, could ,put 'on display,' apd learne<:l,a,lot,,'abollt how, the ,hous,e .h~d: been;" .
, ,used in the pa'st j2lnd:pow the house'had been' really' mO,difie?, pver,; tiine: to' . ,
"fill its many functions •., I mean, 'it. is, 'a: museum. : It' i's the 'house' of ,,'
the' 1:lead,of stat~.' 'It. i,s': a 'i)ub];ic ,building. '. And it is ,a residet:lce.
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,There are. so :,many aspects.
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And, we h.av~' a,:lot, of "the artwork 'now' that, was, formerly, i,n:
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stor'ageondisplay1:nttif2~h,tteH0~Se.,:, And we are in [the. process' :of,
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making 'su,re we ·have 'somewhere deplcted In-:the,.West ;Wlng' or in',.the· house
'."' • . ' . ·ev.ery President and·.First Lady th,at's.eve.ry lived' here, so .thi:ltwe·have
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. l:;'ome. kihd·of,memory·.pf· thei'r presende~ .' ..... ,.. " , "
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. And: when the. Presidentis office was "done 'up on the second >f.loor
of ·the Residence/which.,is.. th:e.Treat:y Rqom; we paid~ speclal1attent'ion to' ,
."making . ~ure '\iesou~ci'get ba.ck J .int,o ';tha'troqm" a rot 'of the. pieces ~of art I
andfurn'itureand :other'memorabilia that meant sometp'ing to. the house.
, ," ',. '. 'And: t,heri he' particularly,' enjoys looki'ng' at all tha.t ,is there and knowing
,·th'ehisto,ry of it al1d und~rstanding where ft came from, and what .it
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" . . THE PRESIDENT:.' . The picture'of., Linco,l:h,which you,/'-:--you I ve. ,s'een, .
it ~-. that' $. Ln, the': Linco'lnBedrboxil', 'with,his military: ',ad:V1:sers" pl'anning
. the peace I whi,ch was qone not "longbefore he w'as 'kil:;l'ed., And 'they're pn
. ',a ship ,and 'tneY,'.re'there~ith,an. admira,l,'and . with~' .ap 1: ~eme~ber)'l' • . . '.
.'.. ,~'G~ne~al'Gr(iilt al1dmayb7' (;eh!9:ra+~ :.·.~herida:h' o;r'~he~ma~ -::~'maybe:it's',,' ' .
" Sherman "7-, and the a~m1l:~al / and ·there.~,s ,i3.. ralnbow . In thebackgroupd.
And'it was such a yleari -'-'Lincoln had a very" .clear;' idea of "what, h e )
.'\wanted' to do to . hea'l·the country'afte'r' the' wa'i- .,,'
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\' ' "" Andwp:en he' ~le9.- ~nd tl:l~D :'lNpenPresldent Jqhn::;oI1Cam,eln:, and ~e, .
. wasweakened,i ~pd .. t~e 'recon~truct:iqh":~o'ok ';a·:far'l11ore draconiaq turn,-' .
: I've often thougl1t that,:thatwas a:,sort .of· .an unexp10red tragedy in, ':
'American history, 'because, I .think t t" hardened attitudes: in the . South 'and,
. made' it 'nlOredifflcult' f0r" us' to work th~ough the' issues dfrace;' and
also, kind .of· ratifie<:i theecon'omic packwardhe'ss'.df :the place'for: a .long'
.tim~.,.·
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's'a'dly ~n0ugh, ,l'fl~sou~hernp,olltlCS.-";'''St,lll belng played out.' . 'But
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'from,the tinco,l'n' ,Sedroom 'poI: ·bould· see, -i t~ 'eyery, day"because' ',j dO,n; t g'o
.'. -:,,' "baqk 'to. the ~in'cdln\ room everydaY'I; called "nWai:tJj1g'for' the~our.il~. Arid'
;" :it',s,a bunch;of s,laves,sitting in q.dark room fiye minutes.befb~e'
·midnight· before:,the effectiye ,date':,of th~,~ Emancipa't:i'oh :proclamation,,'
, ;" . which arguably,;.~l:te:! liI?st impo:rtan:t; da,cume.nt: eyer .signed 'in.thewh~te:'.
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impon·ta'nc,eqf the presidency and, tryi,pg t,o, getitr.ight at whatever ,
,po.int·in hist:or'y.,yollhappeh .'tl;) ,serve·~· Tho~e:two pictiiresreally'mean a"
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, " :tha 1;:/ I find:very,:, important an};isupportive .I.hay:e ,become a :\gr~at .. ,
, admire'r, o'f both Rqosevelts/"muchto:,the~ dismay 'of. ~y"fathei. " ;,' '.,'"
":'(Laughter'.,) iAnd,i've', become' ,q. "great, ,admirer bf'"both Trumq:r1s. ,:And 'we' ,
were~pq.iticularly· pleased, t:o"have M9-rg.ar'et Truman Dani.els visit·, us and'
spend' timewith·us,~. which I '~adfo'9ria a gre~it joy'·.,· ,I·· q.ma: great admirer,
~of·t:he Kenn€!dys~ ,And, ~yfriendship ,and't~me: wIth' Jack~e Kennedy 9nassis'
, " was· one of' the most € ! xtra,ordinaj:"y ,9Ppqrtunities ·of my~ life ~Iam',:a '.' :" ;
'. ,g~eat.admirer of ,presl,de'nt Johnson',s·domestic.accbmplishments'. ,And I
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, o,n W:Olpefl's,'. issues,. ahd I?articul~rty' '.ttte, E~'qI?-d brTas! "cancer .ViI:el) twas: .
, hot at. ail easy.,' I ,thlnk;that .bothpres];dent;and Mrs., 'Car:termade ,·a " ' ,
." gre~tcon.tr~bution·.t9al'lot,o·f' t;:he diffiC?ulti's~u~s 'thf;lt COnf'rOht'ed :the· ..
country~' And t think that. ~rs·. carter.' ~ wo'r.k on. beh?tlf'of' lnEmtal' health,
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from?,' I~ know :you, mentioned Lincoln 'and', Truma:n~'<:i:,~as :r1ondering/Mrs.:.',·' ,
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was best, for' her ~ ,'. ' And I ' ,always emj oy'ed:being, .around' both President and
Mrs;.,' Bush /: 'whom 'Vie, h'ad '.some a:'cqu'aintanc-e , with.' b'ecause'hf .her husband's:
time' :as: governor. " . Ancl :i ~ ve· a.lways 'fOund. them 'very 'easy to, talk. to and'
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".the 'peop(le who,have b~en :here,Ithink you:,do not get, ~othl~posi:tibn,
without, i;t lot of :,admirabl!= per,sonal cha;I',att~:n;ist.tps ;th?lt oftentimes' get
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it I s',,~very ;imp6rtant~, and I,must say ',one' of the great thing's .r a,dmire .. '
"abcn)t:'myhusbal1.ct ',i's;hl,s humiiity ',in th~"face \o:f\thisresp'onsibility an&,
his wi1.'Tingness tc)'understatld :thi.d:: even though' you, ,are eled::.~d ". ' "",'
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lissa Muscatine - Press Office
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1993 - 1997
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
<a href="http://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36239" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2011-0415-S
Description
An account of the resource
<p>Lissa Muscatine first served in the Clinton Administration as a speechwriter. Within the First Lady’s Office, she served as Communications Director to the First Lady.</p>
<p>Lissa Muscatine’s records consist of materials from First Lady Hillary Clinton’s Press Office, highlighting topics such as health care, women’s rights, the Millennium Council, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and deal extensively with press interviews given by the First Lady; her domestic and foreign travel; and speeches and remarks, on a wide variety of topics, given by her before and during her time as First Lady. The records include interview transcripts, press releases, speeches and speech transcripts.</p>
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Adobe Acrobat Document
Extent
The size or duration of the resource.
1,324 folders in 27 boxes
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Paper
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
FLOTUS Press Office Interview Transcripts Volume IV 06/07/94 - 10/13/94 [Binder]: [08/24/94 Anthony]
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Box 4
<a href="http://clintonlibrary.gov/assets/Documents/Finding-Aids/Systematic/2011-0415-S-Muscatine.pdf" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
2011-0415-S
Provenance
A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource.
Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Clinton Presidential Library & Museum
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Adobe Acrobat Document
Medium
The material or physical carrier of the resource.
Reproduction-Reference
Date Created
Date of creation of the resource.
11/26/2012
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
2011-0415-S-flotus-press-office-interview-transcripts-volume-iv-06-07-94-10-13-94-binder-08-24-94-anthony
7431941