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INTERVIEW WITH THE FIRST LADY
BY KATIE COURIC 6/2/93~-~
Q
Health care reform is incredibly complicated . . Can you
tell me, in one minute, exactly what you're trying to do?
Mrs. Clinton: The President is trying to --(inaudible)-- so
that every American has the security of knowing that no matter
who he is or who he works for, or whether he's ever been sick
before, he will have access to health care. And that means
providing a universal coverage, or package of benefits -
(inaudible) that will meet the primary and preventive health care
needs and hospitalization of every American.
Q
Let's say there's a middle class guy working for
General Motors. will he have the same benefits, the same choice
of doctors; and pay the same money that he does now, under your
plan?
Mrs. Clinton:
I can't reallY answer specifically, because I
don't know exactly what he has or how much he pays.
But in
general, most Americans will have access to a very good benefit
package that provides the kind of primary preventive health care
that they ne~d to have, and also takes care of them with the kind
of acute hospitalization all of us fear, as well as providing
benefits for paying for drugs, prescription drugs and long term
care, which in some cases will be somewhat more than what is
available in the market right now.
And in some cases, (gap in
tape)
--(in progress)-- the way they get health care right now,
and how they go to their doctor, how they get services, and what
they will find after the plan goes into affect because we really
think we've got the best quality health care in the world in
America. We just don't provide it in an equitable way for all
Americans, and we don't provide security for even those who are
currently insured to know that they will always be able to get
it. And we haven't done a good job in controlling costs, and in
eliminating the fraud and abuse that still does drive up the
costs of health care.
Q
But it is conceivable, that someone could get fewer
benefits and pay more.
•
Mrs. Clinton:
It's conceivable.
It is conceivable, but I
can't really answer a hypothetical question like that because
what we find is that for most Americans now, they are in danger
of losing all or part of the benefits that they currently have~
That employers are finding it increasingly difficult to continue
to pay for what they have been paying for.
So even if someone
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were tq say, "gee, well, now here's what I've got now," they can't
with any assurance in today's world, no matter who they're
employed by,
say, "and I can tell you for sure that's what I'm
gonna have next year."
Q
So their paying is a pay-off, fewer ~enefits, more
money, greater security?
Mrs. Clinton:
I don't think fewer benefits.
I think from
our perspective, the right kind of benefits, provided to
everybody at an affordable cost, that controls cost and ensures
quality for everybody.
Q
We've been reading, we've been hearing that health care
now may be delayed, until September.
Mrs. Clinton:
You know the President had asked that a
number of us, conclude the work providing him with information he
should make decisions on. That work is over. We have completed
the task that he assigned to us, and have created mounds of paper
and many different kinds of analysis.
And he's now in the
process of making what will be the decisions on his plan.
But
certainly he'S also very focussed on the economy -~ trying to
get the first realistic budget this country has had in a very
long time through the Congress.
And that's what he's working on
day and night right now.
But he will turn to health care with
the same kind of attention that he'S always given, as soon as
he'S able. He wants to do that as. soon as possible .
.Q
Doesn't he have to get his budget passed on Capitol
Hill before he gives them some massive proposal on health care?
Mrs. Clinton: Well I think he in terms of his resources,
being able to focus and make the decisions that he feels
comfortable taking to the country, and saying, "here's what I
have (inaudible) -- and do it quickly," he has to feel that he's
had enough time to digest all of this information, and although'
we've met for many, many months; many, many people, the ultimate
decision is the President's.
It's clear that he's focused right
now on the ~-(inaudible)-- but he's also continuing to work on
health care.
Q
But again, don't you think that he has to take care of
his budget first?
Mrs. Clinton:
I think he· wants to get the budget over with,
he has always wanted to. He had the earliest success on budget
resolution any President in many, many years has had.
He feels
very strongly that we need to attack the issues that he raised
forth in the budget, but yes, I mean he wants to get that behind
him.
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Q
But that could mean waiting until September to
introduce health care.
Mrs. Clinton:
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I can't
really speculate on that.
I can tell you that he believes you
cannot solve our economic problems without a health care plan.
It' needs to be linked to the economic package. He wants
Americans to know that all the work that has gone into trying to
reduce the deficit, to try to make life better for millions of
Americans through things like taking millions of them off tax
rolls with the Earned Income Tax Credit .. And all the other
issues that are in that budget that a lot of people don't even
know about, have to go hand in hand with controlling health care
costs. So, for him they're bound up, and he wants both of them
to be successful -- (inaudible)--.
Q
There are others who say that there's no way you can
get the budget passed and health care reform passed in one year.
Mrs. Clinton: Well you know there are a lot of people in
Washington who say things can't get passed. And I think that's
one of the attitudes that the President is coming right up
against. There are a lot of people who are tied to doing things
the old way and not making much progress, getting all locked up
in gridlock and dancing to the tune of the special interests.
And so one of the reasons why we're having the difficulties we
are now, is coming up with a very responsible and realistic
budget for the first time.
I don't think the President buys
that.
I think he believes that the country has big challenges in
front of it, he wants us to address the big issues: the economy,
creating jobs and solving the health care crisis.
Q
You want to see it dealt with this year?
Mrs. Clinton:
I think that every year that we wait the cost
continues to --(inaudible)-- hundreds of thousands of people go
uninsured -- through no fault of their own.
People who have
insurance see their benefits cut, and I think every year we wait,
we get further and further --(inaudible)-
Q
How much is this going to cost?
And how long will it
take?
Mrs. Clinton: Well I that it's going to actually
(inaudible)-- and it will be the kind of plan that, that I can't
get out in front of,
--inaudible-- that will over time, help
control our deficit, help to control the incredible budget
problems that people in their own households --inaudible-
Q
But in the short term, this plan costs an awful lot of
money, we've heard anywhere from $30 billion to $150 billion
dollars.
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Mrs. Clinton:
Q
Than's just way out of line.
$30 billion is way out of line?
Mrs. Clinton: No, 30 billion may not, depending upon what
the President tries to put into the package.
It's really a -
(inaudible)-- because a lot of it depends upon how it's phased
in, how many savings we can get up front, you know, for example,
if we eliminate a lot of the administrative costs in both the
public and private sector, so that it's no longer there.
So that
you don't have hospitals having to pay for people filling out
forms, they can provide care instead.
Q
Taxes will have to be raised, won't they?
Mrs. Clinton:
Q
raised?
No, not reaaly.
You can say unequivocally, that taxes will not be
Mrs. Clinton:
I can say unequivocally that the President
has some options in front of him that will minimize any general
kind of tax that will be put on anybody --(inaudible)~- is to
work to try to figure out how the burden can be shared fairly in
America. And that doesn't mean putting big taxes on people, that
means taking what is currently spent, spending it better to
provide better --(inaudible)--. And frankly making people who
have been free riders pay their fair share. Now you could go
into any town in America and walk down any main street, and you
can walk by stores and just say, you know, the dry cleaner pays
for insurance for their employees, and the employees contribute.
Next door you've got another store and they don't pay anything.
When they get sick, they go to the hospital and they are treated,
and it's usually too late and too expensive, and all the rest of
us pay for it. That kind of unfairness is at the root of solving
the problem.
So some people will have to pay instead of having a
free ride. But most people will see their costs stabilize
. overtime, and actually increase --(inaudible)-
Q
taxes?
But to make it fair some people will have to pay higher
Mrs. Clinton:
No, not higher taxes, they'll have to pay
premiums for insurance that will give them the benefit
(inaudible)-- they won't pay taxes --(inaudible)-
Q
... It will come out of their paycheck?
Mrs. Clinton: Or come out of a contribution, however
they're gonna decide to do it.
But it will go toward insurance
for them and their family because right now it is such a fallacy
to think -- (inaudible)-- are uninsured and therefore don't get
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medical care. They don't pay for it the way that the rest of us
pay for it, with contributions in our paychecks, sharing with our
employer or the self employed on our own.
They show up at the
same hospital, they do get the treatment and usually they pay
what they can, but often they don't pay anything. And then we
have a system called medicaid which basically pays for people who
are very poor. But it doesn't inspire people to get the kind of
primary preventive and go to people in the primary care field so
that their problems could be taken care of earlier.
So they show
up at the Emergency room, which is the most expensive kind of
care.
Q
will abortion be included in the package?
Mrs. Clinton:
Q
I don't know.
Do you want it to be in the package?
Mrs. Clinton:
I think that's all up to the President.
We've given him all the information for him to make that
decision.
Q
How do you think people feel about you being in
charge? Do you think senior aides can walk up to your husband
and say, "Mr. President, I think your wife is way off base?'"
Mrs. Clinton: Sure. Sure, we have a very open
relationship, you know people have all these stereotypes in mind
about, you know how if somebody's in this role, then therefore
you have to treat them a certain way.
I suppose there are some
people that may not feel comfortable, but they may not feel
comfortable talking about anybody in a direct way about their
opinion.
The President really encourages that and he goes out
of his way to ask everybody what they think, which is one of his
great strengths in life.
I've been in lots of meetings where
people said, "I. don't agree with that", and I said, "I don't
agree with that",
and we've gone back and forth about it, I
think that makes a better team.
-- tape change -Mrs. Clinton: That looks like something out of a science
fiction movie.
Can you ride it up and down? See I'm dreading
when Katie asks me about my space alien baby and that I haven't
-(inaudible)-- this is the thing I'm really worried about.
I
don't know how those tabloids found out everything. The thing I
want to know-- if you ever look at the picture of me holding the
baby, who's arm is that?
Q
One senator, albeit a Republican, complained that
there's no give and take at some of these health care meetings,
because no one wants to offend the President's wife.
.
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Mrs. Clinton:
I've been in lots and lots of meetings where
I've had very good and honest conversations with many Senators
and many members of the House, so I really can't comment on that.
I'm open to any point of view, I've sought it out, I've tried to'
be as easy to reach as possible and I've been very grateful for
the honest counsel that I've gotten from both Republicans and
Democrats.
Q
Much has been said about the success of the Clinton
administration riding on health care reform. That's tremendous
pressure for you, and what seems to me to be a tremendous
political risk. Wouldn't it have been easier for your husband,
or wouldn't it have been wiser for your husband, for your husband
to hire someone who could be fired? For example if he or she
fails?
Mrs. Clinton: Well I suppose that by traditional political
standards it would have been.
But I just want to say, one of
the things we keep trying to get across, my husband feels very
strongly about these issues. They are not just political issues,
to be tooked at on some polling chart. He thinks we need to
solve the health care problem. He doesn't want to be distanced
from it, wants to wade right into it. He knows it's a political
.risk. Whether it were me or someone else, the ·fact is he's the
one that's going to be making the decisions and be out in front.
It's an enormous political risk.
It's the reason health care
reform has never passed in this country. There have been decades
of trials, but they've never gone forward because it is extremely
complicated.
Q
Don't you think that the public sees you as the person,
ultimately, maybe not ultimately, but mostly making the decisions
on health care?
Mrs. Clinton: No, I don't think so.
I think they see me as
somebody who has tried to do a job that the President has asked
me to do.
And I've tried to go out in the country.
I've had
enormous positive encounters with people allover our country,
talking about health care. Doing things the President -
(inaudible)-- trying to get out there and bring back the real
human story and make this problem come alive, not just some dry
economic conversation.
And I feel so strongly that it's not worth being President,
it's not worth being in public life today if you don't try
honestly to deal with our problems. We've had too much denial
and too much avoidance of the problems that our country has. And
Is it a risk? Sure it's a risk.
we deserve better as a nation.
Am I conscious that I could get blamed, or be criticized? Sure.
But I think it's a risk that my husband believes is worth taking.
And I agree with him.
�- 7
Q
HQW are yQU held accQuntable, if yQU fail?
Mrs. ClintQn:
Oh gQsh, read the papers, turn Qn the
t.v., there'll be many peQple whQ'l1 be willing to. jump up and
dQwn and say, "I tQld yQU SQ," and PQint fingers.
But it's nQt
whether 1 fail, and even whether the President fails, but whether
the cQuntry fails, I mean that's -- sQunds kind Qf hQkey and Qld
fashiQned -- but that's the way I feel abQut it.
I mean, 1 WQuld be happy if SQmeQne in the last ten years
had dealt with this prQblem.
I WQuld be happy if SQmeQne right
nQW came up with a sQlutiQn that they thQught answered all Qf the
prQblems that we've been dealing with.
But what I have fQund is
that in the mQnths that we have wQrked Qn this, many peQple have
wQrked very hard, they've CQme up with gQQd ideas, but they've
never had a President who. eQuId give the leadership to' pull it
all tQgether and --(inaudible)-
Q
Are yQU nervQus?
Mrs. ClintQn:
--(inaudible)-- because yQU knQw, everybQdy
wants to' get it right.
We want it to' wQrk fQr Americans.
I want
my mQther to. feel secure, I want my daughter to. feel secure, I
want to. feel secure.
I want to. be able to. chQQse my dQctQr.
1
want to. knQw that the kind Qf health care I expect is the kind Qf
health care I will get.
But I also. want to. be resPQnsible, and I
want Americans to. feel resPQnsible again.
Like so. many Qf Qur
Qther issues in this cQuntry --(inaudible}--. There are a IQt
Qf peQple who. dQn't even knQw hQW much they really pay fQr health
care Qr hQW much their emplQyer pays fQr health care, they dQn't
pay much attentiQn to. it.
SQmebQdy else has to. wQrry abQut it.
There are Qther peQple who. dQn't make any cQntributiQns, -
(inaudible)-- they dQn't pay fQr it themselves, --(inaudible)--.
So., I think all Qf us are gQing to. have to. face up to. these
prQblems, and be mQre resPQnsible and I feel very, very much that
this is a big, big issue.
I want to. do. the best jQb I can -
(inaudible)-
Q
The apPQintment Qf David Gergen as CQunselQr to. the
President has been widely interpreted as a mQve to. the center by
Do. yQU
yQur husband, Qr a return to. the center, if yQU will.
endQrse that? Do. yQU think that's necessary?
Mrs. ClintQn: Well I dQn't think that he ever really left
the center.
I think that anybQdy who. IQQked fairly at what he
has dQne fQr the last several mQnths WQuld cQnclude that.
I
think that David Gergen, whQ's been a friend Qf Qurs fQr a number
Qf years, will bring a real added'perspective. He dQes have
experience in the White HQuse. He's been in this city -- which,
based Qn my shQrt experience, is a very difficult place to.
understand why it dQes what it dQes sQmetimes. And I think he'll
�-be a good counselor, which is the role that the President has
asked him to play.
- 8
Q
Surely it's not simply the perception that he has
lurched the left as many columnists have described.
I mean gays
in the military, abortion rights, raising taxes rather than
giving the middle class the tax break that was promised during
the campaign, don't you think it's clear that he has ...
Mrs. Clinton:
Q
Well ...
••• strayed a bit.
Mrs. Clinton:
Both those first two issues were talked about
in the campaign. He made it very clear where he stood on those
issues. And he won the election.
Q
Yes, but he made them his top priority, right away.
Mrs. Clinton: No, he, there were a number of things like
fetal tissue research ban, that you know we've had children and
their families come up to us and thank us because they had
chronic diabetes, or someone with Parkinson's disease, and that
was a bill that had passed the Congress with Republican support,
and that was one of the first things that the President did
because he believes in research, he believes in helping to solve
people's health problems.
--(inaudible)-- the medical
(inaudible)--, I don't consider either of those to be liberal,
quite frankly.
I think that they are in line with a more
sensible and reasonable approach to dealing with our problems.
And with respect to the economic package, you know, to wake up
the day after the election and find out the deficit was worse
than you had been led to believe, that there were a lot of tough
decisions that were now made even tougher because of economic
changes that had occured, required him to be responsible.
And I
think he's done that.
And I don't think it's left or right to say, you know, we're
going to deal with the deficit, guys. We're going to cut
spending, and we're going to try to invest to create jobs.
I
consider that pretty much down the center.
Q
You left out gays in the military.
Mrs. Clinton: Well, that was something else he talked about
in the campaign. And it was never, as best as I can recall, ever
made an issue.
Nobody ran commercials against him. And I think
he didn't see that as a left issue so much as, here is our most
important institution to protect this country. And there aFe
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9
many people in this institution who have served honorably.
even the Persian Gulf War demonstrated that.
And
Nobody really complained much about it during the campaign.
So he moved to do it. And this great big eruption occurred.
But
I think he didn't view that again as something left or liberal so
much as, you know kind of letting people live their own lives,
which is a pretty good American tradition.
Q
I know you had a one on one interview with David Gergen
which might lead people to .think, gosh, can't President Clinton
hire anybody without Hillary talking to them?
Mrs. Clinton: Well, David and I have been friends a long
time. And he came over to the White House to wait for Bill to
return from trip, and we visited for about twenty minutes.
And
then Bill came in. And we visited for about another ten minutes
and then I left. And they visited for another two hours.
But
he's somebody that I've known and respected for quite some time.
Q
Your husband will be appointing a Supreme Court
Justice, to replace Justice White. Can you imagine him
appointing someone without giving you the opportunity to talk to
the candidate?
Mrs. Clinton: Oh, of course.
going to talk to them.
Q
He will do that.
I'm not
You have no interest?
Mrs. Clinton: Oh I have great interest.
I'm an American.
I care deeply about who's on the Supreme Court.
Q
No interest in talking to the individual?
Mrs. Clinton:
newspapers say.
No.
No, I don't do that, despite what the
Q
Your husband has had a tough time lately in terms of
the public perception. His approval rating is lower than any
post-war President at this point in his administration.
There are some people who believe had you not been in charge
of health care, some of these embarrassing fiascos wouldn't have
happened.
The haircut. The travel office debacle. That had you
been keeping your eye on the ball, you would be the one who could
say, hey, Bill, you can't do that.
Mrs. Clinton: Well, I think that's, it's not squaring with
any reality I know.
I mean I am very committed to doing what
he's asked me to do, which is to work on health care. And you
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know, a lot of these other matters are ones that, you know,
things happen.
You know people make mistakes. And you regret
it.
But you learn from it and you go on.
And I think that any
time you've got someone like Bill who's trying to do a lot of
things because he thinks the country needs some changes to face
up to its responsibilities.
It's not going to be batting a
thousand.
You know I mean in baseball, you win batting trophies for
batting three hundred. And I think from his perspective there
are a lot of tough issues that need to be taken on.
And honestly
I don't think he really is that concerned about his popularity
except as it affects his ability to get what he thinks needs to
be done.
Q
But those two things are linked.
Mrs. Clinton: Well they're linked.
But you know they may
be linked more in theory than in practice.
Because I don't know
that any President could be more popular with corning in and
trying to do some of the stern stuff that he's tried to do on the
economy.
You know a lot of --(inaudible)-- cut taxes and raise
spending at the same time, ruin the deficit like we did over the
last 12 years, never pay the price, you know roll right along,
never face t·he consequences.
It's a lot easier to send a budget
to the Congress, knowing that it'll never get passed because it's
not a responsible budget to begin with. That's the kind of
leadership we've seen over the last 12 years.
He took very seriously the job he was elected to do.
And
what he believes is that as President he's got to take the heat.
That means saying look, we've got to cut spending. And you know,
cut spending in many instances means taking things away from
people that they believe in or that they care about or even need.
It's real easy up here to talk about cutting spending.
But often
times that means cutting jobs out.
It means cutting services
out. He's been willing to do that. And he's been willing to say
we've got to deal with the deficit. And that means we're going
to have to be responsible with revenues.
Q
But some of his public perception problems have nothing
to do with that, about making hard choices. They have to do with
making bad decision.
Sort of, bad judgement, in recent weeks.
•
Mrs. Clinton: Well I just, don't think that if he weren't
trying to do hard things and he weren't engaged in the kind of
struggle he is, to get the budget that makes sense for the first
time, (and that frankly is opposed by a lot of very powerful
interests,) much of the rest of this would seem as, yeah,
somebody mad a mistake.
Somebody had a misjudgment.
It's not
the end of the world.
It's not going to take food off somebody's
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11
table, because of a policy that was wrong.
deny health care to Americans.
It's not going to
So from my perspective, the fact that he's taken these hard
things on, has left him open to extraordinary attacks from a lot
of people who have a lot to gain by preventing the changes he's
trying to bring about.
Q
No?
caputo:
Done.
Q
I was going to ask you what you thought was wrong with
the way the White House was being run, but ..... .
NOTE:
THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS PREPARED FROM A VERY POOR QUALITY
TAPE AND MAY CONTAIN INACCURACIES.
�
Dublin Core
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Lissa Muscatine - Press Office
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First Lady's Office
Press Office
Lissa Muscatine
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1993 - 1997
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<a href="http://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/36239" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
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2011-0415-S
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<p>Lissa Muscatine first served in the Clinton Administration as a speechwriter. Within the First Lady’s Office, she served as Communications Director to the First Lady.</p>
<p>Lissa Muscatine’s records consist of materials from First Lady Hillary Clinton’s Press Office, highlighting topics such as health care, women’s rights, the Millennium Council, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and deal extensively with press interviews given by the First Lady; her domestic and foreign travel; and speeches and remarks, on a wide variety of topics, given by her before and during her time as First Lady. The records include interview transcripts, press releases, speeches and speech transcripts.</p>
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Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
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FLOTUS Press Office Interview Transcripts Volume I 01/29/93---9/30/93 [Binder]: [06/02/93 Couric, Katie NBC]
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Box 1
<a href="http://clintonlibrary.gov/assets/Documents/Finding-Aids/Systematic/2011-0415-S-Muscatine.pdf" target="_blank">Collection Finding Aid</a>
<a href="http://catalog.archives.gov/id/7431941" target="_blank">National Archives Catalog Description</a>
Creator
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Lissa Muscatine
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Clinton Presidential Records: White House Staff and Office Files
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Adobe Acrobat Document
Medium
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Reproduction-Reference
Date Created
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11/26/2012
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
2011-0415-S-flotus-press-office-interview-transcripts-volume-i-01-29-93-9-30-93-binder-06-02-93-couric-katie-nbc
7431941